Ot: tesla May be coming

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by pasadena

You have a strange way of self-defining the parameters to fit your argument, yet not based in fact.

JDP surveys owners. Tesla is the only maker that has refused customer info. JDP is an industry metric. They are not some scam.
If anything, they skew in favor of makers.

If you read their ratings and details, it is pretty clear why and how. In fact, JDP does help improve products.
JDP is also transparent in the how and why of their ratings. Easy to educate yourself on them, if you want.

I'm not defending Tesla. Rather, I'm questioning the process that leads to these "facts", as you call them. JDP's results are not based on "facts", rather they're based on owner opinions, right?

You say JDP surveys owners? If Tesla is able to BLOCK owner info, then Dodge (or pick your company) can certainly channel selective owner info to JDP too, skewing results. Point is, if the data comes to JDP via the CarCos, they have a vested interest in manipulating it, leading to inaccurate "facts".

If the results of a study don't make sense, it's sensible to question the process followed. The results of their two studies display incongruities.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by mistermo

I'm not defending Tesla. Rather, I'm questioning the process that leads to these "facts", as you call them. JDP's results are not based on "facts", rather they're based on owner opinions, right?

You say JDP surveys owners? If Tesla is able to BLOCK owner info, then Dodge (or pick your company) can certainly channel selective owner info to JDP too, skewing results. Point is, if the data comes to JDP via the CarCos, they have a vested interest in manipulating it, leading to inaccurate "facts".

If the results of a study don't make sense, it's sensible to question the process followed. The results of their two studies display incongruities.

Only new car owners get the surveys and based on my experience of buying 1 VW, 2 hondas, 1 toyota, and 1 mazda, I've never received a JD Power survey. I put more stock in Consumer Reports data.

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by cribbit

SpaceX basically destroyed a small town by the coast in Texas.

That said, they are also quite aware of their impact and try to mitigate it. However, their mitigation doesn't always align with what actually helps those impacted.

Definitely a mixed bag. But manufacturing is usually better jobs and less negatives than a spaceship launch site.

A little OT here (hopefully not too much); there is a Space-X rocket testing facility 25-30 miles down the road from where I live in central TX, and probably half that distance from where I work. They like to test engines between 6:00 - 9:00 p.m. most of the time. Occasionally they'll do one during the day, but that's the exception. Most of their tests can easily be heard - and felt - in my home. Their facility is 3-4 miles away from a small town where several coworkers live. Obviously the effect is much more noticeable for them! This small town has a p.m. noise ordinance, and Space-X has paid so much in fines to the town, due to the evening tests, it has basically financed a complete renovation of one of the city's parks and little league baseball/softball fields. They actually re-named the park "Rocket Park"! I think some of those fines may be going to other improvements in town as well.

So def a mixed bag for these folk. Some don't mind them if they're contributing financially to the area, others just want them out, period. Hasn't hurt real estate, as there continues to be new housing between my work and the town close to the Space-X facility. No point to make here, just an anecdotal tale to piggyback on this previous reply.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by josephr

Only new car owners get the surveys and based on my experience of buying 1 VW, 2 hondas, 1 toyota, and 1 mazda, I've never received a JD Power survey. I put more stock in Consumer Reports data.

Our household has gotten two JDP surveys in my lifetime
Consumer Reports is a great source for alot of product data.
Tesla dropped off their "recommended" list (3, X and S) and then, Tesla made improvements to quality and the 3 is back on the list (at least in late '19)

Model X continues to be not recommened
I think the S is also 'recommened' now, but I could be wrong.

[pasadena]

Are you reading what you're writing?

1. I'm not JDP
2. "if....then..." assumptions you continue to let run through your mind are not based in anything JDP or anyone has said or done.

3. As I have said multiple times, JDP is transparent in how it collects and breakes down data. Go read it if you want to understand the ratings.

Originally Posted by mistermo

I'm not defending Tesla. Rather, I'm questioning the process that leads to these "facts", as you call them. JDP's results are not based on "facts", rather they're based on owner opinions, right?

You say JDP surveys owners? If Tesla is able to BLOCK owner info, then Dodge (or pick your company) can certainly channel selective owner info to JDP too, skewing results. Point is, if the data comes to JDP via the CarCos, they have a vested interest in manipulating it, leading to inaccurate "facts".

If the results of a study don't make sense, it's sensible to question the process followed. The results of their two studies display incongruities.

[mistermo]

Originally Posted by pasadena

Are you reading what you're writing?

1. I'm not JDP
2. "if....then..." assumptions you continue to let run through your mind are not based in anything JDP or anyone has said or done.

3. As I have said multiple times, JDP is transparent in how it collects and breakes down data. Go read it if you want to understand the ratings.

Common sense would suggest there's a correlation between quality and dependability. No?. For many of these companies, there's an inverse correlation! Nothing on JDP will explain how Toyota can go from substantially below average initial quality to substantially above average dependability. Same in reverse for Dodge.

This doesn't pass the test of common sense unless there's (a) something critical that I'm missing, or (b) their data is misleading or false. I'd hoped you could shed light on (a), since you seem to have a better grasp of JDP than I.

My premise is that IF one company can block customer data, THEN it seems logical to assume others can too, even selectively, and I'm certain JDP won't publish this either.

I'm not attacking you, merely trying to understand what it is that you see, and escapes me, that explains this.

Apologies to the OP and steering this sideways.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Common sense would suggest there's a correlation between quality and dependability. No?. For many of these companies, there's an inverse correlation! Nothing on JDP will explain how Toyota can go from substantially below average initial quality to substantially above average dependability. Same in reverse for Dodge.

This doesn't pass the test of common sense unless there's (a) something critical that I'm missing, or (b) their data is misleading or false. I'd hoped you could shed light on (a), since you seem to have a better grasp of JDP than I.

My premise is that IF one company can block customer data, THEN it seems logical to assume others can too, even selectively, and I'm certain JDP won't publish this either.

I'm not attacking you, merely trying to understand what it is that you see, and escapes me, that explains this.

Apologies to the OP and steering this sideways.

The critical data point is that the Japanese and other manufacturers don't really give a crap about JD Powers. They're pretty much selling everything they make anyway and their reputation for long-term quality is far more valuable than whatever JD Powers has to say. Look at the companies really touting their data - GM, Dodge, etc....all of them still having a hard time convincing consumers their product is a good long-term buy.

Edit: I just think Tesla is getting blasted for this maybe because they're handling it wrong -- should just say "yeah, we'll participate" and then not do much about it...plus probably getting some flack from JD Powers trying to push them into it, because, ya know, Tesla is the new kid on the street.

[fiamme red]

South Korea launches safety probe into Tesla vehicles: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN24U07W.

[fiamme red]

TSLA is up 11.2% today.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/17/te...for-no-reason/

Tesla shares surpassed $1,800 for the first time today, the latest in an eye-popping run up of the stock that has propelled the company’s valuation to more than $341 billion.

Let’s put these numbers in perspective. Tesla, an automaker that delivered 367,500 vehicles in 2019 and is aiming to exceed the 500,000-mark in 2020, is worth more than the combined market valuations of America’s Big Three automakers: GM, Ford and Fiat Chrysler. Strike that, Tesla is now worth more than those companies combined by a factor of three and a half...

[fried bake]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Hard to understand the basis for JD Powers 'quality' list. Subaru, often thought to be a quality leader, is 25th. Mercedes is 28th. Audi is 30th.

The highest quality marque goes to.....drumroll......DODGE! Kia and Chevy round out the top three.

Honda and Toyota are 19th and 20th. Dodge is 20 spots higher than Toyota?!? Something doesn't add up.

My Tesla has been towed twice. Once when I parked illegally, once when I ran out of battery juice in the middle of -10d temps in winter. Both were my fault, rather than quality issues.

Ease of operation or ergonomics (specifically, how intuitive it is to operate the car) are a significant portion of the IQS study, which is why Tesla was at the bottom and why MB and others struggle.

That being said, I can assure you that Toyota and MB place a high value in the JDPowers survey. Those rankings are trusted and worth hundreds of millions in positive brand exposure.

[fiamme red]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/07/elon...ff-bezos-.html

Elon Musk just became the richest person in the world, with a net worth of more than $185 billion.

Thursday’s increase in Tesla’s share price pushed Musk past Jeff Bezos, who had been the richest person since 2017 and is currently worth about $184 billion...

Musk started 2020 worth about $27 billion, and was barely in the top 50 richest people....

[mistermo]

One of the best explanations of Tesla's business model(s) I've seen. Tesla is no more a car company than Apple is a telephone company. When it started, Amazon sold only books. One would've been foolish to consider Amazon as just another book seller.Here

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by mistermo

One of the best explanations of Tesla's business model(s) I've seen. Tesla is no more a car company than Apple is a telephone company. Here

I got lucky and invested relatively early.

Energy storage is one holy grail. The other is stage 5 autonomous driving.

This said, I wish they would hire some folks from Audi, or even Honda or Toyota, to design their cars and interiors! They make one good looking car, the Model S. And even that one has an interior only a mother could love. Simplicity of design is one thing. Cheapness is another and it’s not a virtue.

I’m glad I bought in when the buying was good because it’s not good now.

They also offer a few things that could be very interesting in the future. The Tesla roof is available now and the Tesla Semi may, especially when autonomous driving arrives, revolutionize cargo transit. Also, Tesla very wisely built the charging infrastructure early instead of expecting the existing companies to add it. Like oil companies are gonna add chargers at gas stations.....!!!! Or like electric car owners want to hand around at filthy gas stations. The Supercharger network is genius.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by mistermo

One of the best explanations of Tesla's business model(s) I've seen. Tesla is no more a car company than Apple is a telephone company. Here

Agree..reminds me of RedBull..NOT an energy drink company but a 'marketing' company..that also sells this really disgusting energy drink..