OT: California Dreamin': Density is the Future.

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by chrismoustache

Definitely an interesting thread so far.

If nothing else, I really appreciate these 'extra-curricular' topics on the forum. Even when some threads get a little tense, they are still much tamer than any other online venue or public meeting.

I can tell really funny stories about public meetings in rural areas where the intent to curtail growth was being considered. Tractors parking my car in, with the manure spreader tipped just so.

Having to inform the police we were having meetings.

Fist fights between residents in the parking lot.

Best quote ever to an elected official - "we didn't put you there to do this to us". From a unregulated growth person in an area of poor water quality and quantity.

Other favourite one - "You know what I see here is too many people wearing ties, this is not a wedding or a funeral."

[Red Tornado]

Originally Posted by Ozz

As long as there was a stable Galactic Republic.....

Well played sir!

Yes, with a stable republic or prior to the rise of the Empire. OTOH, too many conditions required. Just cross Alderaan off the list. I could do just fine in Naboo. Thought their star fighters were pretty cool, too.

[Mike V]

The city I live in treat waist water and uses it on a majority of city park, schools, medians throughout the city. They also separate and recycle all trash. Green waist (grass, trees, leaves) is mulched and used on city properties.

Originally Posted by paredown

A question about water resources for California residents--are the storm drains and waste sewers still connected, run into the same waste treatment plants and then get dumped out to sea?

Or have there been programs for returning gray water or ground water through groundwater reclamation sites?

(I ask because we are still running almost everything into the Hudson, even though we have a sole source aquifer for drinking water that suffers in dry years, while our population is growing like crazy. (We do have one operational gray water treatment site--but a few years ago they tried to ram through a desal plant, on the Hudson, just below the Indian Point nuclear generating plant.)

[bigbill]

This is all Ned Beale's fault. In the 1850s, he was tasked with surveying a wagon road from Sante Fe to the Needles, CA area. He was successful and the railroad built tracks along his surveyed route. Then Rt66 followed the railroad and the big immigration to CA followed. Irrigated farms flourished, crops were grown in the desert, and the population exploded.

FYI, I live adjacent to the old wagon road and I get my water from Truxton Canyon. Truxton was Beale's grandfather.

[Coffee Rider]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Or people remember places like Chernobyl and Fukushima.

That ain't Hollywood.

FWIW, I was fine with having a nuclear power plant (San Onofre) operating 30 miles from where I live and was disappointed when it closed. I am probably not typical.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by pdonk

I can tell really funny stories about public meetings in rural areas …….. snipped a bunch.

Other favourite one - "You know what I see here is too many people wearing ties, this is not a wedding or a funeral."

Waaahaaaaaahhhhhaaaaaa!!!

[pdonk]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Waaahaaaaaahhhhhaaaaaa!!!

I stopped wearing a tie to meetings in rural areas after that, and rarely if ever have worn one for work since then.

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...ts-now/619900/

Apropos.

I think more Americans would enjoy off grid living than they would initially think but a majority would not be able to handle the downsides.
It is definitely more sustainable than traditional living but it is a ton of work.

One thing I will say is the author of that article is really misleading when he’s talking about some of the electrical demands. I’m not sure how big the solar system is but you can definitely have a washer and dryer and modern appliances. A normal fridge is a killer so if you want a plug in you’d have to get a sun frost, but with propane fridges and on demand propane water heaters I believe many people would be happy to live off grid if they just experienced it

[jtakeda]

I was unable to read the original article but read the other ones.

What’s the big problem with high density housing? Everyone wants to live in the big city but also have an organic garden and chickens.

The city is noisy, busy, a center of commerce and culture. They’re supposed to have high density housing to accommodate all of the things going on. People generally move to cities because of all the stimulation and things to do not to live a slow lifestyle.

Am I missing something? I understand you don’t want your neighbor to build a multi-residential dwelling but that’s what it takes to support all the infrastructure and businesses in a city….

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

I was unable to read the original article but read the other ones.

What’s the big problem with high density housing? Everyone wants to live in the big city but also have an organic garden and chickens.

The city is noisy, busy, a center of commerce and culture. They’re supposed to have high density housing to accommodate all of the things going on. People generally move to cities because of all the stimulation and things to do not to live a slow lifestyle.

Am I missing something? I understand you don’t want your neighbor to build a multi-residential dwelling but that’s what it takes to support all the infrastructure and businesses in a city….

It’s a change in the zoning laws throughout the state, not just in the dense urban areas.

SB 9 makes two important changes to state law:

It allows homeowners in most areas around the state to divide their property into two lots, thereby increasing opportunities for homeownership in their neighborhood; and
It allows two homes to be built on each of those lots, with the effect of legalizing fourplexes in areas that previously only allowed one home.
SB 9 also contains important protections against the displacement of existing tenants.

Much of the pushback would (presumably) come from people whose property values might be affected.

But the state is burning. South Lake Tahoe anyone? The “California Dream” needs to be radically reconfigured, and this seems like a sane, equitable, and none too radical approach.

[verticaldoug]

My math may be wrong, but I think with available habitable land (-deserts, -mountains, minus ice) every human can have 2.5 acres.

Provided you have fertile soil and amble water, what do survivalist estimate the minimum amount of land required to be self suffcient? 5 acres.

Houston, we have a problem.

Everyone wants to be a hobby farmer...then reality punches them in the face. People think 'Little House on the Prairie' is romantic. I'm pretty sure it sucked... At least my ancestors thought so....

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

It’s a change in the zoning laws throughout the state, not just in the dense urban areas.

SB 9 makes two important changes to state law:

It allows homeowners in most areas around the state to divide their property into two lots, thereby increasing opportunities for homeownership in their neighborhood; and
It allows two homes to be built on each of those lots, with the effect of legalizing fourplexes in areas that previously only allowed one home.
SB 9 also contains important protections against the displacement of existing tenants.

Much of the pushback would (presumably) come from people whose property values might be affected.

But the state is burning. South Lake Tahoe anyone? The “California Dream” needs to be radically reconfigured, and this seems like a sane, equitable, and none too radical approach.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...sakha-republic

Taiga is on fire too.
As is turkey
and some greek islands
they closed the BWCA in northern MN because of the Greenwood fires.

I think the problem is larger than California....

and what's happening down in Brazil?

[HenryA]

ohmygodwereallgoingtodie

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by HenryA

ohmygodwereallgoingtodie

Most likely not. And the people with more affluence will fare better, unsurprisingly.

But, hey, nothing like taking one of your fancy steeds out in 150 AQI.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by bigbill

And it's not the US. It wasn't the reactor's fault in Fukushima and Chernobyl was an inherently unstable design.

Long, long time ago, when I was a midshipman (After 3 mile island, before Chernobyl) I remember a nuc sub officer telling me the big safety difference is the Navy ran it’s reactors at 10% capacity vs the civilians at 100% to maximize revenue.

Anyway, my cool smallish town of about 50k is discussing housing density. Real estate here is about $200+/sf and the people that do the heavy lifting in the town can’t afford to live here. The new zoning proposal is to include “medium density” dwellings, I.e. 4 unit apartments, etc, in certain areas, including my neighborhood close to downtown. Many of my neighbors are up in arms, but I’m ambivalent, maybe even kind of for it. The 1100 sf, 2br, unfinished basement house across the street just sold for $500k and new owners are already starting the addition to the house. Middle aged couple around our age which is cool, but big picture, that’s a starter home and probably better for the community of a new family goes in that house. Just my opinion.

I think density decisions, as others have said, are better left to local communities. That being said, the debate here seems to be dense urban (LA, NYCj vs rural but these are the extremes and these population density decisions apply better to midsize communities where transit issues, parking, groceries, other services are easier to address as density increases. Again though, that’s why best left to localities. I fully expect that my neighborhood of small to medium size houses, in 50 years, will have apartment buildings and a more urban feel. That’s just how things go. I’ll be in a nursing home then, so happy that my kids will be able to sell my home at a handsome profit to high rise developers.