For comment: "Why It's Impossible For Steel Frames To Be More Comfortable..."

[charliedid]

I ride bikes not frames.

[Robot870]

Had a S works tarmac once - 70 miles and I was in pain......Got a titanium bike -120 no pain......It was a easy test for me.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by colker

The most important component for comfort is paint. Yellow bikes are significantly more comfortable..

Originally Posted by charliedid

I ride bikes not frames.

Certainly, of course.

But, it seems from above that if you were to ride an I Am Curious (Yellow) bike, it might even be (a little or lot all depends) more comfy....

[vincenz]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Why is it obvious that the guy does not ride race frames? It's been found that people who ride race frames (including those who do it for a living) have difficulty in distinguishing "comfort" between frames.

It is true that you can't measure "comfort" directly with a scientific instrument. To determine differences in human sensations, you need humans. But human's are easily influenced by pre-conception and bias. (For example, tests have found that when people see a wine being poured from a fancy bottle, they find it tastes better than the exact same wine when they see it being poured from a less fancy bottle). To get around that, blind (and sometimes double blind) test protocols have been developed. So what happens when you subject riders to blind tests of bicycle frames? That's been done a few times - and when it has been done, the riders weren't very good at distinguishing differences in comfort between frames. In this interview with Josh Poertner (one of the engineers at Zipp who has worked with many racing teams), he describes doing blind tests with industry professionals:



So, if pro racers can't feel the difference in comfort between an aero road frame and an endurance road frame, why do you think you can?

I’d like to see the white paper on that study, if any. I didn’t see any mention of materials comparison, only differences in frame design/geometry.

[Wakatel_Luum]

Fyi...

[rounder]

My observations (pretty sure some others will disagree) - I rotate 3 bikes: serotta ciii (steel tubes carbon fork), kbedford road bike (steel lugged tubes with steel fork), kbedford cross bike (ti tubes with carbon fork). They all have pretty much the same components, except the cross bike has compact chain rings. When i am riding along along, all three bikes feel pretty much the same except the cross bike is easier going up hills.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by charliedid

I ride bikes not frames.

So do I. That's why I use a comfy saddle, pick bar tape with just enough squish, select tire width and pressure to match road condiitions, and pick the frame for fit and handling (and not compliance).

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

So do I. That's why I use a comfy saddle, pick bar tape with just enough squish, select tire width and pressure to match road condiitions, and pick the frame for fit and handling (and not compliance).

Word.

[flying]

Interesting video

But honestly when he talks about no difference between frame materials I do not think you get the whole picture by measuring "vertical" deflection alone.

After all he starts the video by comparing the diamond frame rightfully to a truss structure.....
So yes we can basically stop there & really no need to go much further down that vertically stiff road...We know it is vertically stiff due to shape

So we can work with contact points & seatpost etc. to improve comfort

But he never talks about lateral deflection & what that gives impression wise to a rider.

When folks talk about the feel of steel or steel being lively IMHO this is what was being discussed

Simple test
You can stand on the side of a bike hold bar with one hand & with pedal/crank at 6 o'clock put a foot on pedal & push towards the crank. This shows how much BB lateral flex that bike has.

I am not saying a lateral flexing noodle is good but

I was always under the impression that was the spring/liveliness we felt on a good steel bike.

[colker]

Originally Posted by flying

Interesting video

But honestly when he talks about no difference between frame materials I do not think you get the whole picture by measuring "vertical" deflection alone.

After all he starts the video by comparing the diamond frame rightfully to a truss structure.....
So yes we can basically stop there & really no need to go much further down that vertically stiff road...We know it is vertically stiff due to shape

So we can work with contact points & seatpost etc. to improve comfort

But he never talks about lateral deflection & what that gives impression wise to a rider.

When folks talk about the feel of steel or steel being lively IMHO this is what was being discussed

Simple test
You can stand on the side of a bike hold bar with one hand & with pedal/crank at 6 o'clock put a foot on pedal & push towards the crank. This shows how much BB lateral flex that bike has.

I am not saying a lateral flexing noodle is good but

I was always under the impression that was the spring/liveliness we felt on a good steel bike.

This^

[EB]

The stiffest bike I’ve ever owned (by far) was a Colnago Master with the Precisa fork, made with Columbus steel. That thing was a jackhammer - even running 28s on nice wide rims, or swapping saddles, would not mute its jackhammer nature. Wonderful bike, but definitely not comfortable for long miles on crappy Marin back roads. I gained a whole new appreciation for the hard men that rode that thing in the Classics on 23s.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by flying

Interesting video

But honestly when he talks about no difference between frame materials I do not think you get the whole picture by measuring "vertical" deflection alone.

At the start of the video he states that he is not suggesting there is no difference in ride feel or quality, he is only talking about comfort supplied by the frame.

[vincenz]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

At the start of the video he states that he is not suggesting there is no difference in ride feel or quality, he is only talking about comfort supplied by the frame.

Except comfort cannot be solely defined by vertical compliance, so his entire video is pointless and clickbaity.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by vincenz

Except comfort cannot be solely defined by vertical compliance, so his entire video is pointless and clickbaity.

Your right, comfort is about more than just vertical compliance. But I think we can agree that it starts there - sitting on anything that perfectly rigid won't be very comfortable. And since there is so little vertical compliance in the frame, it might as well be perfectly rigid, and therefore it contributes essentially nothing to comfort.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by reuben

I pump up my tires at 7,000 - 10,000 feet. The lighter air in the tires makes me significantly faster when I ride down.

I actually use hot air in my tires. Feels like I am floating. On my mountain bike when I hit a jump, I fly like that guy in ET.