OT: Euro Pilsners v Budweiser

[goonster]

Originally Posted by ripvanrando

Pils where the water is soft and from keg is so much better than the bottled beer sent to us. Is it the transport????

Yes. The transport does not agree with any of the Continental lagers.

The soft water is actually not ideal for brewing. I've heard a pro brewer say that Urquell is a great beer "despite" the water.

Originally Posted by dave thompson

I fill up on Budvar on tap at the Schweitzerhaus at Prater Park in Vienna. Best Weinerschnizel there too.

Ouch, I hope that was the autocorrect.

That said, Stelze, or go home.

("Gems ma a Stoez'n, und a hoibe." Apologies, but that's a card I don't get to play very often.)

[ripvanrando]

Originally Posted by goonster

Yes. The transport does not agree with any of the Continental lagers.

The soft water is actually not ideal for brewing. I've heard a pro brewer say that Urquell is a great beer "despite" the water.



Ouch, I hope that was the autocorrect.

That said, Stelze, or go home.

("Gems ma a Stoez'n, und a hoibe." Apologies, but that's a card I don't get to play very often.)

My German might have been too soft or my brain too drunk. I thought brewers over there told me that. I used to enjoy going to vineyards and brewers and asking questions. I have no idea if I am wrong, just what I was told and frankly, they probably did not analyse their water.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by goonster

The soft water is actually not ideal for brewing

Depends on what you're brewing. My neighbor is a brewer and anytime I ask a question about water quality we're gonna be there for 20 minutes. Its way more complicated than I thought, and thats just one part. Really fascinating to me.

[choke]

Warsteiner, Bitburger, etc. might be the low end of Euro beer but it's still so much more drinkable than any big name US 'beer'.

My normal preference is something from Belgium, though if I had to pick an absolute favorite it might well be Pilsner Urquell.

A few years ago I was very pleased to see Früh Kölsch on the shelves locally. That was one of my go-to beers when I was stationed in Germany and I hadn't had one in ages.

[goonster]

Agreed, it's complicated.

In Pilsen they developed a beer with the ingredients and technology available at the time (mid 19th C.), which became very successful (in large part due to appearance), and now they are locked into that myth and mystique.

Like Budweiser's "beechwood aging:" not required with today's ingredients and equipment, but they do it because they've always done it. InBev altered the process to a cheaper alternative recently, and drove the original supplier out of business, IIRC, which is a great shame.

"Our water is better" is a simple and effective marketing line, but I think it is fair to say that no commercial brewer, starting from scratch today to produce even that style, would voluntarily choose that water chemistry, undermodified malts, and a triple decoction mash.

[jemoryl]

Since the topic of water has come up, I'll add a few comments related to the British ale scene. As an American living in Liverpool in the early '90s, I became fascinated with 'real ale' and classic pubs, and wound up a member of the local CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) branch. At the time there were six large and evil brewing combines that were buying up many small or regional brewers, closing the plants, and (sometimes) trying to duplicate the beers elsewhere in one of their mega-breweries. Ideally, they would like to convince the yoof that they should drink Stella/Bud/Fosters and that traditional cask bitter (more work to keep in the cellar) was something that only old farts drink.

Burton-on-Trent was always a brewing center and the ales made there had a distinct taste, attributed to the high levels of gypsum (sulfate) in the wells that provided the water. Bass, when it was made in Burton, was said to be a prime example (I guess Marston's and Burton Bridge still exist). Brewers who want to replicate this taste can "Burtonize" their water. Here is an interesting article on brewing in Burton: https://britishheritage.com/food-dri...d-beers-burton .

Cask Tetley's was an iconic real ale from Leeds, owned by one of the big six brewers Allied, who wanted to sell it nationally. To do this, they had to expand production into a brewery in Warrington (Cheshire). Liverpool CAMRA had some contacts at the Allied Warrington brewery who swore that a great effort was made to condition the water to match Leeds and duplicate the process. Despite this, many considered the original Leeds product to be superior when tasted side by side with the clone.

[crankles]

Originally Posted by lavi

Jupiler is all you need!

Well also a nice Chimay and D Tremens and Kwak and Duvel (my fave).

Now I'm thirsty. These beer threads are only supposed to happen Friday afternoon - Sunday sundown.

We can hang. I'll add tripel karmeliet (my fav) and the Duchess to that list....
Which reminds me. Need to stock up before worlds!

[benb]

I am also really really sick of the IPA "make mine more ridiculous" game at this point. I liked the whole thing but I'm super fatigued of it and the doctor says I'm mildly allergic to hops.. something I'd have never ever figured out if it wasn't for the race to put more and more hops into everything. A lot of the lagers and more traditional euro styles just don't have enough hops or have varieties of hops that will never make me feel sick.

Really gotta force myself to stop with the IPAs and go back to exploring these other styles.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by auto_rock

Maybe they'll start importing Budweiser Budvar to make up for the shortages. (In a good chunk of Europe, the American beer is sold as "Bud", there's a Czech company who owns the Budweiser trademark.)

We toured that plant while on a cycling tour. Good beer!

The story of the ongoing dispute over the trademark name has been going on forever. The Wiki article has the deets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budweiser_Budvar_Brewery

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by benb

Really gotta force myself to stop with the IPAs and go back to exploring these other styles.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by benb

I am also really really sick of the IPA "make mine more ridiculous" game at this point.

It's profitable for small craft brewers: easy to scale with existing equipment, drives a hype to try the latest thing, small "exclusive" batches with high ABV can be priced (much) higher.

Scottish ales and many Belgian styles: you hang a fistful of old Fuggle, or Styrian Goldings, so that its shadow falls into the brew kettle . . .

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by goonster

("Gems ma a Stoez'n, und a hoibe." Apologies, but that's a card I don't get to play very often.)

Ah, I miss the simplicity of ordering beer in the old world...

Ps. OK, I'll play...
My standard "last meal" at the Munich airport before boarding my flight back to the US with a small change: I stick with the Hax'n but for me it's a Weissbier rather than a Halbe

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

I am also really really sick of the IPA "make mine more ridiculous" game at this point. I liked the whole thing but I'm super fatigued of it and the doctor says I'm mildly allergic to hops.. something I'd have never ever figured out if it wasn't for the race to put more and more hops into everything. A lot of the lagers and more traditional euro styles just don't have enough hops or have varieties of hops that will never make me feel sick.

Really gotta force myself to stop with the IPAs and go back to exploring these other styles.

Fortunately it seems like most brewers think this too, as I regularly see much more interesting options with lighter beers, sours, etc.

[goonster]

Originally Posted by Gsinill

My standard "last meal" at the Munich airport

2nd best thing about Munich airport, after the business lounge showers, is the proximity to Freising/Weihenstephan (n.b. opens 10 am).

[rab]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

Last Sunday I sat outside at a bier garden in Palm Harbor FL drinking this very beer all afternoon with a bunch of friends. The Original Budweiser Budvar.

We were fortunate enough to discover a local favorite taproom had the real/original Budvar / Budjovice Budweiser this past weekend. I love the various IPAs but it’s hard to beat a classic German/Czech beer on any occasion.