Best way to replicate cleat position on new shoe?

[El Chaba]

You need one of these and then you can get serious about replicating cleat position. You pedals screw into the fittings and you can mark reference points from your old shoes with a grease pencil or erasable pen on the transparent grid. Approximate the position of the new cleats/ shoes and mount them up….adjust as necessary to put the new shoes within the parameters that you marked and voila…Science, y’all….

[flying]

I have not read all the answers but here is mine
You said new shoe so tracing doesn't work

I know the center of the ball of my foot is 6.75" from wall if my bare foot is against a wall

I know where I want that on the pedal (basically in my case over spindle)

So I set that part of cleat that distance from rear of shoe + thickness of rear of heel cup

That sounds more complicated than it is

I also know I like a straight ahead shoe with no clipping of chainstays or crank arms with heel so I set the cleat straight & centered XX amount from heel

If that measuring sounds too complicated then of course you can put shoe on & feel where side of ball of foot is & make a mark on shoe. That will help you for/aft location. Cleats usually have a line of the side as a marker for this

[jimoots]

With new shoes I find it safest just to start from scratch... work out where the ball of your foot is, place the center of the cleat behind your ball by the same amount as your old shoes.

From there, set a neutral position, hop on the trainer and work out if you need to kick the heel in/out.

As someone noted it tends to be safer to have the cleat further back on the shoe than forward. Too far forward and you'll have sore/numb toes.

An Ergon tool really helps for this sort of stuff, as it lets you make micro adjustments quite effectively with the ability to make basic recordings with a pencil to mark where the shoe was.

[muz]

A lot depends on the pedals, shoes, etc. I like to use pedals with rotational freedom (Speedplay), and like my cleats as far back as possible. So my routine is simple: put cleats all the way back, approximately straight. Mount on the bike, make sure that heel doesn't rub the crank arm in the innermost position.

[Ti Designs]

Different shoes, different fitting. You're trying to keep the rest of your fit the same, different shoes can change that. For example, adding valgus at the heel will move that hip forward despite the ankle only being load bearing on the medial side. Shoes with forefoot varus (Specialized) and very stiff soles tend to act that way. Toe box room and shape will also change where the foot is positioned in the shoe. There are just too many parameter changes from one shoe to the next to make this work.

[Upcountry]

For those of you/us who were wondering how that thing above works...



Its really no different than the cheaper Ergon tool, as the pedal has no effect on the shoes position(float aside).... But it does look pretty neat and seems available for only $68.
I've had the Ergon tool for years, and its really good so long as you are staying with the same brand of shoe. For example, I can mount just about any Giro Empire/Prolight/Factor into it and trace the shoe outline. Toss a new shoe in, and get pretty bang on results. With that, I still hop on the trainer and typically will actually ride with an old shoe on one foot, and a new shoe on the other, just to confirm that they feel the "same". (side note, don't assume your feet are at all symmetrical. seeing as my left foot is a few mm longer, with a lower arch, I run that cleat a few mm further forward to get the spindle under the same spot as my right foot).

Where it falls short is when moving to a new brand of shoe... With a different shape last, heel cup, and toe box, you're kind of left starting over.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

Different shoes, different fitting. You're trying to keep the rest of your fit the same, different shoes can change that. For example, adding valgus at the heel will move that hip forward despite the ankle only being load bearing on the medial side. Shoes with forefoot varus (Specialized) and very stiff soles tend to act that way. Toe box room and shape will also change where the foot is positioned in the shoe. There are just too many parameter changes from one shoe to the next to make this work.

Adding valgus??? Please expound.

[pbarry]

Originally Posted by Ti Designs

Different shoes, different fitting. You're trying to keep the rest of your fit the same, different shoes can change that. For example, adding valgus at the heel will move that hip forward despite the ankle only being load bearing on the medial side. Shoes with forefoot varus (Specialized) and very stiff soles tend to act that way. Toe box room and shape will also change where the foot is positioned in the shoe. There are just too many parameter changes from one shoe to the next to make this work.

Hey! Good to see you! 🙂

[Ti Designs]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Adding valgus??? Please expound.

Bike fitters have very little to work with in terms of changing the rider's position. Combine that with the fact that the bike is the hardest case when it comes to asymmetry - in walking or running as soon as your foot leaves the ground it's free to self adjust. On a bike the two sides go around the same circle... One of the things you learn in fitting is that you can move things around in odd ways. Put a valgus (rotating towards centerline) shim under the heel and that hip moves up and forward. Some shoe companies make the sweeping generalization that the whole world pronates, so they add forefoot varus (rotating away from centerline). The top bone in the foot is called the talus, everything pivots on the dome at the top. If the talus settles to level or there is a significant amount of flex in the sole of the shoe you effectively have valgus at the heel.

You have to understand that there are no standards in the bike industry, every shoe is different. Giro shoes (Easton carbon soles) have the flattest bottom, Specialized adds forefoot varus and has the largest toe box, Sidi uses an I-beam construction to make their shoes torsionally stiff...

In cleat fitting I still use the FitKit R.A.D. pedals which is just a free floating pedal with indicator rods sticking out the side. As a person pedals the bike I see what's going on in terms of rotation at the foot. My job is then to figure out where the movement is coming from. There are a few easy ones to spot, like pronation where the bottom indiactor moves back at the bottom of every pedal stroke. FAI (femoral acitabular impingement) is also easy because it's all tracking of the femur. Changes within the shoe and what happens at the limits of range of motion are the tricky ones.

In changing shoes the real goal is to keep the bike fit the same. That's best done on a measuring system like Retul, where you watch the numbers and get it so they don't change. When changes happen it's the fitters job to understand why and correct it if it's going in the wrong direction.

[Likes2ridefar]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, makes a lot more sense than my imagining a bone protrusion.

[wallymann]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Thanks guys. I just did a combination of some of the above things and am probably pretty close.

as others have said. note relative locations of metatarsal head and cleat centerline. replicate.

i'm a speedplay guy so positioning is much simpler than with look/time.

[benb]

I'm not sure how anything but locating the metatarsals and knowing where you need each foot relative to the metatarsal is going to work.

The only way I can see these alignment tools working correctly is if you're moving from one instance of a shoe to an new instance of exactly the same shoe.

If the shoe is different your foot may be in a different place in it. The toe may be longer, the heel may be shaped differently. There are no good reference points to take measurements from. You can only rely on relative measurements between the two feet as hopefully the pair of shoes themselves are symmetrical.
I don't trust markings on shoes.. I'm not sure I've ever had a pair of shoes with markings where they got the markings symmetrical on the left and right shoe.

I have two pairs of shoes.. If you use one of these alignment tools and take a reference point from the toe or heel of the shoe and make the cleats measure the same my feet will not be in the same place over the pedal. If I marked the metatarsals on the side of the shoe and then used the alignment device with that as the reference point maybe that would be better.. but can I actually mark my metatarsals on the shoes with 1mm accuracy? Doubtful.

And yet I still kind of want one of these tools. My two feet aren't even the same size and the measurements relative to the metatarsal are not the same and my lateral adjustment and angle of foot is different.. so I really really hate cleat issues.

[charliedid]

Ballpark it.

Go for a ride, adjust as needed.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

I'm not sure how anything but locating the metatarsals and knowing where you need each foot relative to the metatarsal is going to work.

The only way I can see these alignment tools working correctly is if you're moving from one instance of a shoe to an new instance of exactly the same shoe.

If the shoe is different your foot may be in a different place in it. The toe may be longer, the heel may be shaped differently. There are no good reference points to take measurements from. You can only rely on relative measurements between the two feet as hopefully the pair of shoes themselves are symmetrical.
I don't trust markings on shoes.. I'm not sure I've ever had a pair of shoes with markings where they got the markings symmetrical on the left and right shoe.

I have two pairs of shoes.. If you use one of these alignment tools and take a reference point from the toe or heel of the shoe and make the cleats measure the same my feet will not be in the same place over the pedal. If I marked the metatarsals on the side of the shoe and then used the alignment device with that as the reference point maybe that would be better.. but can I actually mark my metatarsals on the shoes with 1mm accuracy? Doubtful.

And yet I still kind of want one of these tools. My two feet aren't even the same size and the measurements relative to the metatarsal are not the same and my lateral adjustment and angle of foot is different.. so I really really hate cleat issues.

Using a point to push on the foot for feeling pressure is surely close enough. The markings shouldn’t be symmetrical because your feet arent the same..at least most peoples.

I’ve done this for years and learned it from a pro fit years ago…seems to work fine.

[Matthew]

I simply use the old shoe, flip it over next to the new shoe and place the cleat on the new shoe exactly where the cleat lines up on the old shoe. Did this going from Sidi to Shimano shoes and Speedplay to Shimano pedals. Ultimately the cleat was as far back and as far inward as it would go with the Shimano /Shimano setup. Worked for me. Had the soles lined up at the toe and heel and eyeballed the cleat position.