Thoughts on the Gorilla Monsoon?

[MrSmokey]

Speaking of analog, i found this. https://www.analogcycles.com/debunking-low-trail/

[pbarry]

Originally Posted by MrSmokey

I'll look into the Rodeo Labs Flaanimal!

I really like em and was headed that direction but found a new MUSA gravel frame here. Flaanimal has a nice compromise BB drop so not too low with 650b tires, not too high with 700c. Thought out and executed really well. STA is steep so that might be a + or - for you.

[MrSmokey]

...another option https://www.endpoint.bike/products/2...herer-frameset

[benb]

Originally Posted by MrSmokey

Seems like a lot of the weight on this bike, and the fargo is the wheels. Wooly's looks like it got a 7 or so lb diet from the stock build.

I have to say, wheel weight makes a ton of difference. Going tubeless on my surly ICT was night and day. It also was more comfortable, had more traction, and was just more articulate all around. I would of kept it if now for the weight (i got it down to 34ish lbs hah) and the wide q. I did overall love the ICT by the way, but it was really the Q that was the issue, after time it flared up an old knee injury, and every hour i rode the darn thing i would be limping for a day, and in pain for several. I tried tons of set up changes, and it had to be the Q, which makes sense with my injury as well. Riding my classic mtb does not flare my knee up.

I think heavy wheels kind of go with these bikes. They are never going to be rocket ships. The heavy wheels might change the feel but they also are bombproof a lot of the time and allow you to go ahead and do whatever you want. Ride it on a MTB trail. Beat on it. Carry a big heavy load. Jump it off stuff. The wheels on my Space Horse are tanks but they are undoubtedly the most durable/tough/reliable wheels I've owned. I don't know what they'd cost separate but I bet some of the wheelsets I've had are at least 5X as expensive and have not lasted as long.

The Space Horse as a pretty normal road style Q as far as I can tell.. again it's a pretty similar bike to the GM. I have never stuck 42s on mine but 42s would provide a lot of off road ability. IF the GM has wider MTB style Q/BB it's cause of the clearance for the big MTB tires. I think the Space Horse is still maybe not as narrow as my Trek Domane, but I'm not sure it matters, whereas the MTB width BB area for triple/huge tire clearance is noticeable to me.

Ironically I rode my MTB yesterday and I did a pretty hard 20 minutes and the wider Q did give me a little trouble.. I have that same thing going on. It's not something that seems to be an injury risk but it's more like an annoying cramp that comes on and seems to limit how hard I want to push after a while. The road bikes don't cause it with their narrower setup.

[MrSmokey]

Originally Posted by benb

I think heavy wheels kind of go with these bikes. They are never going to be rocket ships. The heavy wheels might change the feel but they also are bombproof a lot of the time and allow you to go ahead and do whatever you want. Ride it on a MTB trail. Beat on it. Carry a big heavy load. Jump it off stuff. The wheels on my Space Horse are tanks but they are undoubtedly the most durable/tough/reliable wheels I've owned. I don't know what they'd cost separate but I bet some of the wheelsets I've had are at least 5X as expensive and have not lasted as long.

The Space Horse as a pretty normal road style Q as far as I can tell.. again it's a pretty similar bike to the GM. I have never stuck 42s on mine but 42s would provide a lot of off road ability. IF the GM has wider MTB style Q/BB it's cause of the clearance for the big MTB tires. I think the Space Horse is still maybe not as narrow as my Trek Domane, but I'm not sure it matters, whereas the MTB width BB area for triple/huge tire clearance is noticeable to me.

Ironically I rode my MTB yesterday and I did a pretty hard 20 minutes and the wider Q did give me a little trouble.. I have that same thing going on. It's not something that seems to be an injury risk but it's more like an annoying cramp that comes on and seems to limit how hard I want to push after a while. The road bikes don't cause it with their narrower setup.

I'll look into the space horse too. Now my brain is all blown up with if i want low trail or not... Obviously i need to go ride one with low trail. Never had one.
I agree the GB has the larger q due to tire clearance. I could probably use a square taper bb, and mod a crank to make things narrower if i decided i really loved a frame, but no sure thing there unless i have one in front of me and can measure.

my knee issue is specifically a torn medial meniscus, it goes away after few months if I take care when working and don't twist it, take care not to do things like ride ice cream trucks.

I hear you on the wheels to an extent, you can stay strong and get relatively light by spending more money... In my experience dropping wheel and tire weight is something i really can feel and appreciate, at least on an unloaded bike, especially when climbing.


Here is more muddling of the trail talk... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/NTs53DkIGe4

I have not had time to actually go hammer on the krampus. hopefully tomorrow morning....

[MrSmokey]

Well, I ended up with a size 58 Crust bombora for whatever that is worth.
I'll chime in again once its built.

Frame weights right at 5 lbs stripped of all but the seat tube bolt, fork is a hair over 3 uncut.

Here is a great list I found after the fact.
https://bikepacking.com/index/650b-gravel-bikes/

I am currently trying to sort which crank to go with.

[benb]

Yah definitely let us know about the Q.

I am a bit mystified by 2.4" tires on this kind of bike. That's seriously into MTB territory. It's a LOT of tire.

[MrSmokey]

It certainly would fit road cranks with low q. The problem is mountain/touring gearing is not often found on low q cranks, and my intended use calls for mountain and touring gearing. Another problem may end up being chainline and tire clearance, a 2.5 might fit, but i dont know if it would work well.

I am having a hard time settling on a crank. It won't take a triple and still be low Q, and most triples are not that low Q anyhow, and a wide range double that is affordable is difficult to find. But that is ideally what i would like, most of the advantage of a triple, but low q.

My favorite option is the sugino ox601d, which is now out of production, leaving the much more expensive, and flashy/ugly ox901. But that would get me the gearing i want, and the Q.
TA carmina would as well for a little wider q, as would the white industries vbc.
The old middleburn r01 may have worked as well, but they are out of production as well.

running a single up front would be easier in terms of finding parts, and cost.
Sram force is 145mm, and rival is just above that. I could probably get along with 30 or 32t up front and run 11-46 out back, like i have done on other bikes, and swap to a 28 or smaller if i am loading it for touring.
I may just do that now and purchase used parts to do it. Then i could get the thing built and see if i had more room in terms of chainline to set it up for a double (with low q) with the large tires. ...And wait till a used ox601 comes around or something.

I was hoping i could use mostly existing stuff i had and spend money on a wheelset, but its looking like this is may get done more towards spring.

[MrSmokey]

I tried a few others.
on a old 107mm spindle the sugino xd 2 ends up just under 160mm q with a 45mm chainline to the center ring. Old deore xt m730 cranks end up being right around 145 q on the 107, and a 45mm chainline to the outer ring. There is no room to run either of these as a double, and 110 bcd limits tooth count to 34 and up.

The old deore too would need a small amount of clearance made out of the middle of the cranks.

Cranks are not a place i like carbon, but the force cranks are narrower in q than the rival.

https://www.servicearchive.sram.com/...019_road_0.pdf

I feel like its crazy that i can get the sram carbon cranks for less than half of what i can get the siguno ox...

[MrSmokey]

I found this, which looks great, but it is up towards or past the price of the sugino once i pay for chainrings. https://engincycles.bigcartel.com/pr...ram-compatible

[dustyrider]

What about White Industries and their VBC rings? The square taper setup lets you play around with the spindle length and they offer a wide range of gearing choices. The crank arms come up pretty regularly for not a lot of money. You'd just have fork out the money to get the rings you want. Maybe their q is too wide...I've never been that sensitive to such things. I do like the set I have!

[MrSmokey]

Originally Posted by dustyrider

What about White Industries and their VBC rings? The square taper setup lets you play around with the spindle length and they offer a wide range of gearing choices. The crank arms come up pretty regularly for not a lot of money. You'd just have fork out the money to get the rings you want. Maybe their q is too wide...I've never been that sensitive to such things. I do like the set I have!

Thanks!

That may be a good option, but i am not sure yet. i probably should call them and talk to them. The Q is low, but not as low as sram, 150mm at least with their posted bb size which i THINK is a 113. a 107 would get it where i want it, but i have not found chain-line figures or other clearance figures to work with. The cranks my need a little shaving in the middle, which i am ok doing, but it kills resale (where i know the sram force work at 145mm on this frame 100%)
If the White cranks work with a BB I have the cheapest i can get the cranks and chainrings is 190 for the cranks, and 174 for the chainrings. I have not seen them used, but i have only been watching for a several months. These chainrings are claimed to work best with 9 speed and under too, which is not a killer for me, but moves things around a little... https://store.oceanaircycles.com/col...s-vbc-crankset

If cost is the main objective, with the sram stuff one should be ready to go for far under that price, due to readily available used and NOS parts. Not if one is running the fancy spider and sugino chainrings i previously posted though.

I just found this... i need to finish reading it. https://www.peterverdone.com/spider-attack/

Existing sram mish mash seems like it may be the best wide range double option at this Q, per dollar.

I have some time to wait and hunt cranks and chainrings, as my list to complete this build is still long.

Thanks again!

[MrSmokey]

Originally Posted by dustyrider

What about White Industries and their VBC rings? The square taper setup lets you play around with the spindle length and they offer a wide range of gearing choices. The crank arms come up pretty regularly for not a lot of money. You'd just have fork out the money to get the rings you want. Maybe their q is too wide...I've never been that sensitive to such things. I do like the set I have!

What drivetrain setup are you running with your VCB? thanks!

[dustyrider]

Originally Posted by MrSmokey

What drivetrain setup are you running with your VCB? thanks!

Right now, Shimano 105/5700 with an 11/28. But I used to run an 11/36 mtb cassette and 9spd Xt/Deore derailleur with the same 5700 shifters. I was using some larger chainrings 50/34 I think and decided to go to smaller ones. I want to say they’re 48/32(edit:46/34) now, but I’ll have to look to confirm... I swapped around tire size, cassettes, and rings a few times before settling.