Into the Lion's Den - recap vid

[pasadena]

B-team took the first half of the race, chasing breaks, keeping the pace high
then A-team took over.
Basically made any break impossible and setup the A train sprint.

I think some are concentrating on the peas, and Legion is looking at the whole dinner.
The goal is to make a successful event. By all accounts of racers that were in the event, it was special. It was a big event that they all hope would continue and grow.

Originally Posted by roguedog

Interesting info from those of you more in the know.

I just thought the presentation was a fresh take. Whilst I like the more serious tone and commentary from the Pro races, I felt this video made it more fresh and fun. Seemed like a nice different voice than the traditional race commentary / summaries, you'd normally get. I also liked that it was a woman and that they gave some good air time for the women's race.

Interesting to read though all the background on Legion. I wonder if Legion put in their B team to make ti look like a bigger field? If there were another team in the race would they have done so? Or is this their modus operandi? If the latter, then that does make them a bit less cool.

[choke]

Originally Posted by pasadena

They had Demi Vollering and Majerus amongst a strong womens field, and they had very positive comments.

Christine wasn't there but Demi was joined by teammates Amy Pieters and Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio. Amy finished 3rd.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by choke

Christine wasn't there but Demi was joined by teammates Amy Pieters and Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio. Amy finished 3rd.

Oh yeah Pieters and AMP- that's right
pretty cool to see them take in the sights as well. Again, they were very positive of the whole experience. Success.

[drewskey]

The Williams Brothers have been producing crit content for a long time. I would actually credit them with the modern American crit video. Look up Nation’s Number 1 Beast on YouTube.

They’ve been hyper aggressive for years in races and have been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism, much of it rightfully so.

The fear of their style of riding growing to others hasn’t really panned out from what I’ve seen. It’s a lot harder to emulate them in a crit at speed than you’d imagine. Hell, the whole cycling world watched Cav and Renshaw Headbut the sprints in the Tour, but I’ve yet to see it ever in person for that same reason.

Either way, they’re trying to put a new marketing on things that have all been done before. It won’t fundamentally change participation in the US, but it will put on a show trying.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by pasadena

B-team took the first half of the race, chasing breaks, keeping the pace high
then A-team took over.
Basically made any break impossible and setup the A train sprint.

I think some are concentrating on the peas, and Legion is looking at the whole dinner.
The goal is to make a successful event. By all accounts of racers that were in the event, it was special. It was a big event that they all hope would continue and grow.

I watched the event live but not this recap.

One part of the puzzle that I’m trying to comprehend is this: you plan a party and all stories leading up to it suggest it’s a game changer esp focusing on the prize list, and then you line up at all - much less with twice as many guests as others you’ve invited - and then consume most of what’s offered.

Further, I’m still trying to find more about that fee charged (allegedly, by a fellow racer posting on Facebook explaining his team’s choice to not attend) for wearing your kits rather than the official kit of the day. I’ll chime back if I find it.

I also heard that SRAM’s deep financial buy in came at the expense of not supporting all the other races they had normally aligned with. And until more comes out, this too is conjecture.

[pasadena]

OK?
Thanks for all the conjecture?

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I watched the event live but not this recap.

One part of the puzzle that I’m trying to comprehend is this: you plan a party and all stories leading up to it suggest it’s a game changer esp focusing on the prize list, and then you line up at all - much less with twice as many guests as others you’ve invited - and then consume most of what’s offered.

Further, I’m still trying to find more about that fee charged (allegedly, by a fellow racer posting on Facebook explaining his team’s choice to not attend) for wearing your kits rather than the official kit of the day. I’ll chime back if I find it.

I also heard that SRAM’s deep financial buy in came at the expense of not supporting all the other races they had normally aligned with. And until more comes out, this too is conjecture.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by pasadena

OK?
Thanks for all the conjecture?

Okay.

Regarding the (my) comment about jerseys, it was Sam Rosenholtz from ButcherBox Cycling who posted: "...if we wished to remain in our kit (for which our sponsors pay enormous amounts of money ,and consequently, my salary), and not race in the race-provided kit, we needed to pay a giant fee. Also no travel or housing provided. Also *stares down the list of other reasons we opted not to go."

If I find the conjecture regarding SRAM's supporting ITLD large at the expense of leaving other events with nothing, I'll add that too.

[pasadena]

well looks like you busted them. Total sham that Legion.

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

Okay.

Regarding the (my) comment about jerseys, it was Sam Rosenholtz from ButcherBox Cycling who posted: "...if we wished to remain in our kit (for which our sponsors pay enormous amounts of money ,and consequently, my salary), and not race in the race-provided kit, we needed to pay a giant fee. Also no travel or housing provided. Also *stares down the list of other reasons we opted not to go."

If I find the conjecture regarding SRAM's supporting ITLD large at the expense of leaving other events with nothing, I'll add that too.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by pasadena

well looks like you busted them. Total sham that Legion.

Hey. Don’t take it there. I’m not trying to bust anyone. People are chiming in about the event. I wish it, and L39ION, well.

[tv_vt]

Jen Whalen is great in that. Totally over the top and not afraid to be goofy. She makes that video stand out as fun IMO.

[KJMUNC]

In regards to the question of "what's new? It's still crit racing...."

If they really want to change the paradigm, why start with the standard crit template of riding in circles with a few primes and a sprint finish? Nascar had a similar problem years and they came up with some different ways to mix up the field and incent in-races competitions (although they still race effectively the same tracks).

Why not completely re-think what an hour of bike racing could entail? If you start thinking outside of the existing crit-template box and more in the "what are people willing to watch for an hour that involves racing on bikes?" you could come up with all kinds of crazy variants (different layouts/courses, pavement vs. dirt, adding cyclocross style obstacles, etc.). That blows up the whole "we are kings of the crit racing scene" thing they have going, but if you want to get non-cycling people interested, you gotta think outside the cycling mindset.

[Upcountry]

Originally Posted by KJMUNC

Why not completely re-think what an hour of bike racing could entail? If you start thinking outside of the existing crit-template box and more in the "what are people willing to watch for an hour that involves racing on bikes?" you could come up with all kinds of crazy variants (different layouts/courses, pavement vs. dirt, adding cyclocross style obstacles, etc.)

So the proposed solution is turning crit racing into cyclocross racing... which already exists, and certainly hasn't drawn the masses into the sport.

I think they're(Legion) approach is to bring a bit more of the cyclocross type "environment" or "atmosphere" to the crit scene. Which I don't think is that far off. Its obviously much more complicated than it seems, otherwise some promoter would have unlocked the secret. I do think crit racing has more of a potential to gain traction as a spectator sport than just about any other type of cycling. The basic model is proving to work okay if you look at the Athens or Boise Twilight races, where the town makes a pretty big event out of it, and draws even your random non-cyclist spectators. And whatever was happening behind the scenes, or on the paperwork surrounding "Into the lions den", it certainly got more press in both cycling outlets and non, than any other criterium prior, so they're clearly onto something.

[charliedid]

I'd start by designing a series where you ride on ice in the rain.

[. QUOTE=KJMUNC;3018332]In regards to the question of "what's new? It's still crit racing...."

If they really want to change the paradigm, why start with the standard crit template of riding in circles with a few primes and a sprint finish? Nascar had a similar problem years and they came up with some different ways to mix up the field and incent in-races competitions (although they still race effectively the same tracks).

Why not completely re-think what an hour of bike racing could entail? If you start thinking outside of the existing crit-template box and more in the "what are people willing to watch for an hour that involves racing on bikes?" you could come up with all kinds of crazy variants (different layouts/courses, pavement vs. dirt, adding cyclocross style obstacles, etc.). That blows up the whole "we are kings of the crit racing scene" thing they have going, but if you want to get non-cycling people interested, you gotta think outside the cycling mindset.[/QUOTE]

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Why not completely re-think what an hour of bike racing could entail?

I'm likely dating myself but in all the years of watching, and being part of the sport and also in the trade, the only cat that had the business model dialed was David Pelletier and his Wheat Thins Series. Deep crowds. Heavy dollars. Large and competitive fields.

[KJMUNC]

Originally Posted by Upcountry

So the proposed solution is turning crit racing into cyclocross racing... which already exists, and certainly hasn't drawn the masses into the sport.

Nah, that wasn't my proposed solution....just throwing out different ideas of of how to not make it just an hour of dudes racing in a circle so the average person might pay attention.

Agree with the post above regarding Athens/Boise and the city's participation....that takes commitment and vision by the city, which is lacking a most local governments.

Speaking of Athens Twilight, I'm pretty sure I can still lay claim to be the only person who has raced Athens Twilight within 5 years of playing in Sanford Stadium. It ain't much, but I'll take what I can get these days