Into the Lion's Den - recap vid

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by nalax

One of the problems with stacking the field in any type of competition is that it becomes predictable and as a result, not interesting, regardless of how much money and hype you put into it.

The bigger it gets and the more money involved the field will grow and the racing will get more competitive. IMO

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by charliedid

The bigger it gets and the more money involved the field will grow and the racing will get more competitive. IMO

More competitive at the most elite domestic level, sure. But when you watch Legion's in-race videos, (maybe I'm just a naive Cat 4), but it's all headbutting, pushing, yelling and bullying other riders out of the way until they have their perfect leadout train and be-damned anyone else who wants to be near the front to compete. IMO that turns into new riders/racers who want to be competitive and think the over-aggressive attitude is the correct way to race.

Imagine if pro football was all stepping on ankles and tackling by the facemask. You'd have a generation of young football players emulating all those moves in a U-10 game with orange slices at halftime.

I'm not mad about it, I just don't buy the hype and don't know a single person's name that raced beside the Williams brothers. If they get more kids on bikes and grow bike racing, AWESOME! But don't come in here as a Cat5 trying to push me out of the way because "you" want to divebomb a sketchy inside corner and expect me to graciously move out of your royal way because "that's how Legion races".

[KarlC]

Originally Posted by Clancy

Other than the prize money (bout time pay is equal between men/women) this event looked the same to me as the crit racing that took place in downton Austin back when Lance was doing the Ride for the Roses. Pro teams, big rowdy crowds, pro teams, downtown Austin.

The only big difference I see (besides big money) is the social media aspect, the influencer spin. My only concern with the social media selling of this “new” style of racing is how fickle the public is with social media trends.

But after watching the video, how is this new? Every comment centered on making cycling new, exciting, turn it on its head, revolutionary. Etc.

And, unless companies continue to put this type of money into it, how will it last?

Interesting though how crazy everyone has gone over the $50,000 prize money. Pennies compared to the big 6, soccer, baseball, basketball, tennis, football and golf.

Don’t get me wrong, cool race and cool video, but with apologies I just don’t see the revolutionary aspect to it. What I see is a lot of media hype. Maybe that’s what it takes.

Yea.... What's new and revolutionary about it really ??

.

[e-RICHIE]

I read a Facebook post from a rider on a professional team that typically lines up in these events (USA Crits etcetera) in which it was noted that a very high entry fee surcharge was levied if you (your team) preferred to race in its normal kits as opposed to the ITLD versions that were being made to further promote the race.

Did anyone else see this, or know about the backstory?

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by BRad704

I'm not mad about it, I just don't buy the hype and don't know a single person's name that raced beside the Williams brothers. If they get more kids on bikes and grow bike racing, AWESOME! But don't come in here as a Cat5 trying to push me out of the way because "you" want to divebomb a sketchy inside corner and expect me to graciously move out of your royal way because "that's how Legion races".

You should learn Luke Lamperti's name. https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...luke-lamperti/

[marinwaterguy]

I thought it was good to get away from USA Crits and USA Cycling as they have shown they cannot mange the sport well in the USA. However it was a bit boring that Legion had two teams and I would have preferred to see some more professionals but they had to start somewhere.

[b33]

When the annoying SRAMTV 'reporter' said it was the " Preem Mere" race I couldn't tell if it was a creative pun or a mispronounce.

Either way, I am clearly not cool enough for SRAM. I'll take my Campy.

[pasadena]

LOL
Legion put on the race. It's their race and the whole point of that work is to grow his brand and their brand of crit racing.

The entire thing is to create a high profile event.

They had Demi Vollering and Majerus amongst a strong womens field, and they had very positive comments.
The entire thing is about more than who's on the start list. Of course they want to stack the field and win. So? It's their race.

Do people complain about the many, lucrative post-Tour crits that are historically tradition in Europe?

The fact it's outside of USA Crits is great (don't know if it's USAC but glad if it isn't)

More power to anyone trying to grow road racing in the USA.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by prototoast

You should learn Luke Lamperti's name. https://www.cyclingnews.com/features...luke-lamperti/

Thank you for the link. He seems like a really smart young man, who's had some good mentors in his life already. Very cool to see a young American with his sights on the WT.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by pasadena

LOL
Legion put on the race. It's their race and the whole point of that work is to grow his brand and their brand of crit racing.

The entire thing is to create a high profile event.

They had Demi Vollering and Majerus amongst a strong womens field, and they had very positive comments.
The entire thing is about more than who's on the start list. Of course they want to stack the field and win. So? It's their race.

Do people complain about the many, lucrative post-Tour crits that are historically tradition in Europe?

The fact it's outside of USA Crits is great (don't know if it's USAC but glad if it isn't)

More power to anyone trying to grow road racing in the USA.

Speaking of non-USACRITS...

https://www.velonews.com/news/road/a...cycling-teams/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Upcountry]

Originally Posted by BRad704

More competitive at the most elite domestic level, sure. But when you watch Legion's in-race videos, (maybe I'm just a naive Cat 4), but it's all headbutting, pushing, yelling and bullying other riders out of the way until they have their perfect leadout train and be-damned anyone else who wants to be near the front to compete. IMO that turns into new riders/racers who want to be competitive and think the over-aggressive attitude is the correct way to race.

Have you never watched a World Tour sprint? That's exactly how it goes, and how it has always gone... Have you seen Cipollini race? The difference is now we have "in race" cameras and better coverage, so you can see that happening. So don't blame Legion for that, blame technology. And ironically, those battles that you can now see are what is likely going to draw more people into the sport, as they can see the effort/passion/temper on a human level. Cycling is rather dry to watch until(and even if) you understand the nuance of every little thing. Since you mentioned football... Do you think that most spectators understand half of the rule book? No... But they sure do like the carnage of 280lb dudes beating the crap out of each other. Sure there might be a tiny amount of trickle down aggression in the lower race fields, but with $50k on the line versus a crappy cardboard tee-shirt for winning a Cat 4 sprint, I don't think the incentives are the same for even the most agro "racer".

[Clancy]

Something occurred to me as I was reading through these comments and the article on Luke Lamperti. It seems that the emphasis is on building a rider’s “brand” as in how Luke admires Peter Sagan for building his brand.

So the question is….can a team sport exist when it’s players are focused on building their own “brand” ?

Which brings a bigger question, can a sport exist when a team is focusing on creating its own, unique brand?

Legion put on the race, everything seemed to be about the Legion brand and Into the Lions Den branding, legion stacked the race, possibly required other teams to wear kits promoting the event (waiting for confirmation) and won the race.

It’s almost as if they’re saying “it’s our ball, if you want to play, you play by our rules”

USA cycling certainly needs resuscitation but in the end maybe it’s just resigned to being a niche sport with limited audience.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I read a Facebook post from a rider on a professional team that typically lines up in these events (USA Crits etcetera) in which it was noted that a very high entry fee surcharge was levied if you (your team) preferred to race in its normal kits as opposed to the ITLD versions that were being made to further promote the race.

Did anyone else see this, or know about the backstory?

Originally Posted by Clancy

Something occurred to me as I was reading through these comments and the article on Luke Lamperti. It seems that the emphasis is on building a rider’s “brand” as in how Luke admires Peter Sagan for building his brand.

So the question is….can a team sport exist when it’s players are focused on building their own “brand” ?

Which brings a bigger question, can a sport exist when a team is focusing on creating its own, unique brand?

Legion put on the race, everything seemed to be about the Legion brand and Into the Lions Den branding, legion stacked the race, possibly required other teams to wear kits promoting the event (waiting for confirmation) and won the race.

It’s almost as if they’re saying “it’s our ball, if you want to play, you play by our rules”

USA cycling certainly needs resuscitation but in the end maybe it’s just resigned to being a niche sport with limited audience.

Jerseygate

[fredd]

Riding laps around a block, but make it fresh

But seriously, any and all racing that helps build a platform that's independent from USAC is most likely good for bike racing in the US, IMO

[roguedog]

Interesting info from those of you more in the know.

I just thought the presentation was a fresh take. Whilst I like the more serious tone and commentary from the Pro races, I felt this video made it more fresh and fun. Seemed like a nice different voice than the traditional race commentary / summaries, you'd normally get. I also liked that it was a woman and that they gave some good air time for the women's race.

Interesting to read though all the background on Legion. I wonder if Legion put in their B team to make ti look like a bigger field? If there were another team in the race would they have done so? Or is this their modus operandi? If the latter, then that does make them a bit less cool.