Has Specialized achieved something really specialized in the Aethos?

[torelli]

Sure it's impressively light for disc brakes but keep in mind that Specialized has the means to do this. Weight isn't everything. Sure it might have marginal gains going up but what goes up must come down and I sure wouldn't want that on technical descents with a cross wind. Are you really going to notice a difference on the flats anyway?

[bfd]

Originally Posted by Yoshi

I just don't trust anything that light especially if it was made in China. I have seen too many Treks, Cervelos, Pinarellos, you name it, with everything from hairline cracks to catastrophic failures.
The summer before last a local guy was left quadriplegic by a crash that was the result of a catastrophic failure of the rear triangle of a bike in front of him.

Yow, how do you define “China?!” Does it include Taiwan? Some of the best carbon frames are built in Taiwan usually by Giant. They may not be “custom” like you find from US builders, but it appears all of the companies you mentioned and many more buy their frames from there. Moreover, it is my understanding that even Trek doesn’t build very many frames, if any, in Wisconsin anymore, it comes from Taiwan or “China.”

Good Luck!

[nmrt]

My one question is this: Can the boutique frame builders (Parlee, Crumpton, Bastion, Argonaut, Pursuit etc) build a DISC brake bike for 585 g if they wanted to? Or has Spesh really turned on some technical marvel that the boutique framebuilders have yet to achieve?

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by Yoshi

I just don't trust anything that light especially if it was made in China. I have seen too many Treks, Cervelos, Pinarellos, you name it, with everything from hairline cracks to catastrophic failures.
The summer before last a local guy was left quadriplegic by a crash that was the result of a catastrophic failure of the rear triangle of a bike in front of him.

Really? I think the several decades of high quality carbon coming out of asia is evidence they are more than capable.

And to your N of 1 example, while that is tragic, I would find it extremely hard to believe that it had anything to do with country of origin.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by nmrt

My one question is this: Can the boutique frame builders (Parlee, Crumpton, Bastion, Argonaut, Pursuit etc) build a DISC brake bike for 585 g if they wanted to? Or has Spesh really turned on some technical marvel that the boutique framebuilders have yet to achieve?

There is sort of an underlying assumption to this thought exercise that one of said boutique manufacturers would already make a bike that light if they were able and I'm not sure that is the case. I would bet that most of the buyers for a custom carbon frame are more invested in ride quality and personalized details like geo and finishing options than getting the lightest bike on the market.

That said - I suspect a potential barrier is raw materials. At least 2 of the major brands had to develop new carbon fiber to meet the weight and performance standards of their new wunder bikes. I don't know how easy (or cost effective) it would be for a smaller brand to do this de-novo, or get access to similar products and then have to re-design their layups and tube shapes based around the more expensive raw goods.

I expect they could do it, but it would be too costly to be viable on the scale that the custom builders sell at.

[Kirk007]

I have a 61cm aethos pro frame sitting in a box in my living room. Maybe today I'll start putting it together, and maybe even weigh it. It cost 3K; that's at least 25% and over 50% less than many custom carbon frames. I am generally a custom frame guy; I'm a bit worried on what the aesthetics of this frame will be for me as it will require some nontraditional options to get the bars where I need them. So why did I buy it? Well, I could afford to give it a go and am betting that will the scarcity of bikes and parts I can sell it for close to what I put into it if I don't like it. But mostly to test the proposition, to the best my subjective self can, that the big manufacturers and their ability to do exactly what Specialized has done with this frame (assuming they're not lying) exceeds what most carbon builders can do. I will be comparing this ride to a custom carbon Hampsten, a custom ti Spectrum a custom Steel Spectrum and a Pinarello of some flavor (currently have a F8 rim brake bike and an F10 disk built up but parts from one of those bikes will be hung on the Aethos. -- I'm close to concluding that my custom carbon Hampsten gives up nothing to the F8 other than a few grams; it rides closer to a Colnago than a Pinarello but I'm good with that). And just to take this silly exercisde into the ridiculous realm, I have a Pina Grevil frame arriving today which will get parts from one of the existing Pinas. Based on geometry, tire size ability, carbon compliance, at least as advertised, this could be the goldilocks Pina for me. If not, then there will be three Pina frames instead of just 2 available here to my fellow Paceliners!

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by nmrt

My one question is this: Can the boutique frame builders (Parlee, Crumpton, Bastion, Argonaut, Pursuit etc) build a DISC brake bike for 585 g if they wanted to? Or has Spesh really turned on some technical marvel that the boutique framebuilders have yet to achieve?

Another distinction between mass-produced and custom bikes is that mass-produced bikes have to meet ISO and CPSC safety standards, whereas custom bikes do not. That's not to imply that custom bikes are not safe, but every custom is an "experiment" in some regard, so I'm not sure I'd want to get ride a 585g custom bike.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by flying

It is not that I am a retro grouch
but honestly I DO NOT want a 586 gram frame thanks

I don't either. I'm a realist about how my bikes get used, and I don't want a bike that I can't leave out of sight or worry about leaning it against a signpost wrong.

I sometimes think that there should be carbon bikes that are meant to be bounced around a bit. But I'm the only one that thinks that, I know.

OTOH, I definitely understand weight weenie-ism. As far as how special the Atheos is, we'll know after people have been riding them for 2 years.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I sometimes think that there should be carbon bikes that are meant to be bounced around a bit. But I'm the only one that thinks that, I know.

This is exactly what I build myself. My frames come in around 1200 g in a size 57, which works out to being about double a Specialized Aethos, but I can drop it, crash it, take it off road, lean it up against things, whatever with little worry that I'll damage anything. A "heavy" carbon frame is both lighter then a lightweight steel frame, and can be at least as durable.

I could build something that looked like a bicycle and weighed 600 g, but without an extensive engineering and testing budget, I have no idea how it would hold up to abuse. Instead, I'd rather build something tough and durable, I never have to worry about it.

[Black Dog]

585 grams is going to be fragile. You have to wonder where they took mass away especially since they would have to add mass around the brake mounts. Thats a lot of $ for a disposable frame. The funny part is that you could make the frame ~1000 grams with rim brakes and it would not effect the final mass of the bike in any way. (I am assuming that hydros add 500 grams over a rim brake equivalent).

[nmrt]

I am actually stunned at the 585 g too. Makes we wonder how fragile it is.
But then I think about how, in theory, strong carbon fiber is. Maybe Spesh has come up with a way to lay these fibers that other mfgs are not doing and in the process the bike not only is light but strong/durable too.

But yes, it will be interesting to see how the Atheos endures time.

Originally Posted by Black Dog

585 grams is going to be fragile. You have to wonder where they took mass away especially since they would have to add mass around the brake mounts. Thats a lot of $ for a disposable frame. The funny part is that you could make the frame ~1000 grams with rim brakes and it would not effect the final mass of the bike in any way. (I am assuming that hydros add 500 grams over a rim brake equivalent).

[reuben]

Originally Posted by flying

It is not that I am a retro grouch
but honestly I DO NOT want a 586 gram frame thanks

This ^ from an old weight weenie who has owned 13lb bikes

These days I am more than happy with a bike that weighs more but worries me less.
I am never going to be one of the "Is this a crack in my frame" posts

Price? heheh Yeah I'm not even going there

That aside I am sure they will sell every frame they make

I haven't, and likely never will, own a 13 lb bike, but first and foremost my bike(s) need to be dependable and safe, regardless of the materials.

Like flying, I want fewer worries so that I can enjoy my ride aka sufferfest. I don't want to worry about cracks in frames, handlebars, seatposts, or anywhere else.

Price? Yeah, I can afford an Aethos, but I can't fathom why I would buy one. Discounting the fact that I'm getting old and have long since stopped racing, I can't imagine that spending thousands more will bring me concomitant increase in happiness. Will a 12,000 USD bike bring me twice as much joy as a 6,000 USD bike, or four times as much joy as a 3,000 USD bike? Not bloody likely.

Besides, the money I save can be spent on fancy coffee makers, jeans, impact drivers, and other recent topics.

Or, better yet, one of the organizations I support which try to make the environment safer and better for all of us, cyclists and otherwise.

[mcfarton]

Originally Posted by reuben

I haven't, and likely never will, own a 13 lb bike, but first and foremost my bike(s) need to be dependable and safe, regardless of the materials.

Like flying, I want fewer worries so that I can enjoy my ride aka sufferfest. I don't want to worry about cracks in frames, handlebars, seatposts, or anywhere else.

Price? Yeah, I can afford an Aethos, but I can't fathom why I would buy one. Discounting the fact that I'm getting old and have long since stopped racing, I can't imagine that spending thousands more will bring me concomitant increase in happiness. Will a 12,000 USD bike bring me twice as much joy as a 6,000 USD bike, or four times as much joy as a 3,000 USD bike? Not bloody likely.

Besides, the money I save can be spent on fancy coffee makers, jeans, impact drivers, and other recent topics.

Or, better yet, one of the organizations I support which try to make the environment safer and better for all of us, cyclists and otherwise.

You could also use it to buy tacos. Lots and lots of tacos. I think that it is time


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[johnnylarue]

My 13-year-old Look frame says “585” on it, so it sounds like this Specialized thing would be a side-grade at best.

[charliedid]

Let's overthink this.