Ot - vw id.4?

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by mcteague

More food for thought:

Report: Middle America Just Isn’t Having EVs
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ca...g-evs-44497776

Tim

Well, they weren't having electricity at all until the New Deal came along....

I would not look there for trendsetting....not dissing Middle America, but EVs currently work best in high density areas, so not really a good fit outside of big cities (for now).

[loafer]

My experience with skiing with our Model Y last winter:

The ski area we go to is about a two hour drive away, we can just make it there and back in the summer with a 95% starting charge but in the winter with cold/wind/winter tires/snow on the road and ski box on the roof (all of which negatively affect range) we need to charge on the way back, which worried me initially and I found myself planning and worrying about our range. Now I don't worry, because I now know that there are a number of chargers on the way home and the car routes us to one, preheats the battery and when we plug in, it charges at 250kw and we are only there for 10 minutes to get 100 km or so of range, which is not enough time to even get hot chocolate and pee. Such a short charge feels like nothing and it's neat to get in and out so quickly.

We had lunch in the car instead of the chalet last winter because of Covid and it was nice to have instant heat to warm up and not have to run the engine. Plus that flat dash vent is perfect for placing socks and mitts on to dry them.

So there are disadvantages to using an electric car for this kind of use, but once I gained experience using the car, they are mostly overblown.

[wc1934]

Informative thread - Have you considered the Solterra (Subaru/Toyota joint venture)? When it comes out in 2023 I will give it a long look (I am usually reluctant to purchase cars their first year out - but I will add on the extended warranty for peace of mind).
If not that then the Subbie Crosstrek hybrid (which will accommodate 2 bikes in the back).

[pasadena]

In a market where anything with a battery will sellout: the Toyota venture is a half-baked, half-hearted effort and a flop.
I think it's going back into production after nearly half a year stopped due to recalls.
The fact this EV is not even a full-on Toyota tells you how rushed this product is. It's small, not great range, poor interior (yes I've sat in one) with weird and horrible ergonomics and it's expensive for what it is.

Toyota has other EV's, actual developed products, that are coming in the "BZ" line. They squirted this out just to be in the conversation.

I'm a die-hard Toyota guy so i'm not splashing haterade

Originally Posted by wc1934

Informative thread - Have you considered the Solterra (Subaru/Toyota joint venture)? When it comes out in 2023 I will give it a long look (I am usually reluctant to purchase cars their first year out - but I will add on the extended warranty for peace of mind).
If not that then the Subbie Crosstrek hybrid (which will accommodate 2 bikes in the back).

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by pasadena

In a market where anything with a battery will sellout: the Toyota venture is a half-baked, half-hearted effort and a flop.
I think it's going back into production after nearly half a year stopped due to recalls.
The fact this EV is not even a full-on Toyota tells you how rushed this product is. It's small, not great range, poor interior (yes I've sat in one) with weird and horrible ergonomics and it's expensive for what it is.

Toyota has other EV's, actual developed products, that are coming in the "BZ" line. They squirted this out just to be in the conversation.

I'm a die-hard Toyota guy so i'm not splashing haterade

Which car are you talking about? I was referencing the Subaru Solterra. It has yet to be released - coming out for the first time in 2023. It was a joint collaboration with Toyota but it is a Subaru.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by rnhood

If that VW is available as a hybrid, that is what I would consider. There are too many drawbacks with the all electric vehicles, imho. The hybrids give far more flexibility in use. There again, if you are only going to use it a short distance commuter then it's probably fine.

Agree with that. Seems all EVs are still in it's infancy, particularly with charging times and ranges. Hybrid seems like a perfect 'bridge' between 'our' weening off dino-fueled vehicles to all electric everything. Until quicker to charge, longer range EVs, along with as many charging stations as gas stations..All about convenience.
Son has a 2021 Accord Hybrid..really nice car and about 1/2 the $ of the comparable EV. Gets 50mpg...

[benb]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Which car are you talking about? I was referencing the Subaru Solterra. It has yet to be released - coming out for the first time in 2023. It was a joint collaboration with Toyota but it is a Subaru.

It's a rebranded version of the Toyota with different badges/sheet metal/cosmetics and minor other differences.

But it has one incredibly stupid flaw tacked on. Because of the Subaru marketing points around "full time AWD" the Subaru version of this car will apparently not turn off one of the motors.

Most of the time you don't need both motors, so locking them both on all the time just reduces range compared to the Toyota.

Full time AWD had a reason for existing with gas motors because there is/was seemingly a delay to activate "on-demand AWD" that required a clutch pack or differential to activate, and you could feel this in the vehicle dynamics.

On a BEV it makes zero sense to try and leave all the motors on all the time because they activate instantly and produce full torque pretty much instantly.

[deechee]

I'm not 100% sure, but the latest Toyota hybrids have the most annoying vacuum cleaner sound when backing up. Our neighbour runs a home daycare and I hear one of the parents backing up all the time. I love Toyotas and Subies but if the Solterra has that (and the interior humm noise) that's a huge turn off for me.

Of the artificial electric car sounds I've heard, the Audis are the most pleasing to me. I hope the ID4 is similar.

[pasadena]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Which car are you talking about? I was referencing the Subaru Solterra. It has yet to be released - coming out for the first time in 2023. It was a joint collaboration with Toyota but it is a Subaru.

It's the exact same car, just rebadged and minor trim changes.

Originally Posted by benb

On a BEV it makes zero sense to try and leave all the motors on all the time because they activate instantly and produce full torque pretty much instantly.

awd still has all the advantages, no matter if it's ev or ice. traction doesn't care.

three motors would be better and, like Rivian, four motors is the ideal for traction and control.

dual motors use more energy, but it also has more regen. It also introduces some redundancy if one motor were to fail, it would operate fine on the other motor (Tesla). Real world, manufacturers usually tie dual motor to a larger battery so they get more range than single motor versions.
*single motor is obviously less expensive and more simple/lighter. So it's a value proposition w/ greater range on a smaller battery.

I don't know what Subaru's setup is but more motors on a ev isn't really a bad thing. It has more advantages with the downside of slightly less range.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by pasadena

It's the exact same car, just rebadged and minor trim changes.



awd still has all the advantages, no matter if it's ev or ice. traction doesn't care.

three motors would be better and, like Rivian, four motors is the ideal for traction and control.

dual motors use more energy, but it also has more regen. It also introduces some redundancy if one motor were to fail, it would operate fine on the other motor (Tesla). Real world, manufacturers usually tie dual motor to a larger battery so they get more range than single motor versions.
*single motor is obviously less expensive and more simple/lighter. So it's a value proposition w/ greater range on a smaller battery.

I don't know what Subaru's setup is but more motors on a ev isn't really a bad thing. It has more advantages with the downside of slightly less range.

OK - It sounded like you worked in the industry and had inside info or you were referring to a different car because you stated you sat in the car, commented on the interior, its size and ergonomics. However, the car has yet to be released.

[pasadena]

It's the same car.
Though I am in the industry, I don't have any special perks besides getting into auto shows early.
The BZ4x was on sale, and there is actually one sitting at my local Toyota dealer right now. They were alloted one.
The Subaru has no difference of note inside or out. Minor trim.

Originally Posted by wc1934

OK - It sounded like you worked in the industry and had inside info or you were referring to a different car because you stated you sat in the car, commented on the interior, its size and ergonomics. However, the car has yet to be released.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by pasadena

It's the same car.
Though I am in the industry, I don't have any special perks besides getting into auto shows early.
The BZ4x was on sale, and there is actually one sitting at my local Toyota dealer right now. They were alloted one.
The Subaru has no difference of note inside or out. Minor trim.

If that is the case, then you assisted in my elimination process and Dave's VW looks more appealing.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by wc1934

If that is the case, then you assisted in my elimination process and Dave's VW looks more appealing.

Along that line, I just spoke with someone outside of our local post office about their silver gray VW id.4.

2023 model; she was a big fan… did mention that they wanted to avoid the 2022 with its software issues. Said there was a software update pending (3.0?) but it didn’t affect the 2023 functionality.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by deechee

I'm not 100% sure, but the latest Toyota hybrids have the most annoying vacuum cleaner sound when backing up…

Of the artificial electric car sounds I've heard, the Audis are the most pleasing to me. I hope the ID4 is similar.

I hate all those noises. They’re usually quiet enough that they’re more like a mosquito or gnat than a warning that a car is backing up.

The golf carts at the beach have the most grating backup EV buzz I’ve heard. It’s 50% mosquito 50% electric turkey knife.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Alistair

I hate all those noises. They’re usually quiet enough that they’re more like a mosquito or gnat than a warning that a car is backing up.

the hybrids and EVs are mandated (I think) to have some type of sound when backing or maybe even at slower speeds as that was a huge issue for pedestrians and cyclists when hybrids first came out.. people just didn't hear them and there were many injuries/deaths from what I remember reading..