Why I'm going back to rim brakes for road.....

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by robt57

I think the masses and ABS=good. When brakes get too powerful..

I say this based on a Buell Lightning I had 2005. Buell had a single huge rotor mounted out at the rim casting instead of at the hub, and a 6 piston caliper. pinky brake, one finger for sure.

I am a 10 year motocross veteran from my youth and and lots of front braking experience The Buell brake was so powerful I would not let less experienced riders [non racer track or moto] ride the bike. IMO this bike/brake for the masses should have had ABS mandatory.

I diverge...


Wonder how road tandems with big 203mm rotor fits in to the ABS need/potential, anyone??

Ha, yeah tandem riders are probably real happy about disc.

[bicycletricycle]

Making a separate system to accomplish gives you the most control but it usually adds complexity and cost/weight. Making a component do multiple jobs can be a great way to decrease weight and complexity but usually does require some compromises.

In this case you could make a case either way depending on the details.

Originally Posted by rain dogs

There are so many point/counterpoint aspects to this debate I won't bother adding to the pile.

I will say, however, from a strictly Industrial Design standpoint being able to easily and affordably replace your (consumable) braking surface indepedent from the integrity of the wheel/rim is so vastly more elegant/intelligent a solution it really does make rim brake tracks look like a terrible compromise.

*My road bike btw has rim brakes*.

*full disclosure it is 30 years old.

[Spdntrxi]

luddites !

I chose my rim brake bike today :
Dry, clear and chilly
route I know well
43mi ~2500ft climbing
and I wanted to try my Zipp 608s tubs on my Moots.

I love my disc brake bikes too though and choose those a majority of the time. There are definite advantages to them for "me".

[th_boone]

Never been on anything but rim brakes for road and cross, though for mountain bikes disc is hard to imagine being without (and I grew up riding cantilevers since early 90s). I get it. For road especially and even gravel/cross, it was forced on the market far too soon. Direct mount rim brakes never given a full chance, and even QR disc bikes.

Maybe I am a bad mechanic (actually, I am not that great) but the complexity of the systems and lack of elegance has really taken it's toll on the market. It's probably increased sales, but definitely has lots of new consumers from the past 3 years totally missing out on what could be a much more simple bike to own (and that would look better too) for 90% of what they want to do.

FWIW, I have a Moots road bike that clears 27c and the frame is 15yrs old, and a Steel CX that can clear 35s easily. I find myself running the cx bike for greenway rips in addition to cross/gravel. I love it.

[wyatt_]

This is a great thread, much better than the typical rim vs disc debate.

I’ll dissent on a couple of points.

1. I used to believe that working on hydro brakes took the fun out of maintenance, but I don’t buy it anymore. It’s definitely a new skill set and feels like foreign territory for those of us who started wrenching in shops when cables were the only option. But troubleshooting hydros can be just as pleasurable as, say, toeing in a finicky set of cantis and the result is better braking. Just spent 20 minutes fixing a stuck piston on my Hylex brakes and I gotta say it was satisfying as hell once I diagnosed the problem and got it fixed. (I realize I’m in the minority here.)

2. I don’t mind big hoods. Just saying.

The most interesting question I’ve seen posed that I don’t think anyone has answered is what Grayfox asked. Which is: What’s the deal with the braking surface of carbon rim brake wheels? Can anyone say they’ve been definitively improved? Would anyone argue a textured carbon rim brake track holds up next to a HED Belgium or whatever else is similar? If so, I’d be convinced enough to start thinking about a new rim brake road bike.

[David Kirk]

For my own personal use I’ve come to the same conclusion that I prefer rim brake bikes over disc brake bikes…you’ll note I’m talking about the full package and not the brakes alone.

Disc brakes as a standalone thing are, in most cases, better at braking than rim brakes. It would be hard to argue otherwise. That said I’ve never taken my brakes alone out of a ride…I ride the complete bike…and for me I enjoy owning, using, maintaining and riding a rim brake bike more.

I like that a bike can be made lighter and more supple on the road when it doesn’t need to deal with the very high and asymmetric loads that discs put into the frame and fork. Properly done a metal bike can have a nicer ride with rim brakes than disc in my opinion. The tubes can be thinner and lighter without the need to take all the braking load on one fork blade or c-stay. I like that I can hang it by the rear wheel in the shop for 6 days, or 6 months, and know that air hasn’t worked its way up and out of the lever and into the lines necessitating a brake bleed. I like that a rim brake bike is lighter. I like that I can take the quick release wheels out of the bike without any fuss or tools and don’t need to worry that the brake lever accidentally got pushed requiring that the pistons get pushed back in. And…it’s a small thing but I also like the way a rim brake bike looks better too.

I ride on dirt roads, gravel and pavement. It’s super dry here and I’ve not ridden through mud in years. A rim brake works really well and a disc has near zero advantage for my normal road/gravel use. My typical afternoon ride is 35-40 miles of gravel and a bit of pavement and there’s plenty of vertical and the power and modulation of a rim brake works really well for all that for me. I use a 38 mm tire (measures a real world 41 mm) and Velo Orange mid reach calipers.

My MTB has discs and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Mud, dust, rocks, water, and super steep descents where power and modulation are key make them the best choice for me and my rides. But for any type of road use (dirt, gravel, jeep track, pavement) a rim brake works very well and gives me a better overall experience and ride.

My 2 cents and all that.

dave

[bigbill]

I have a mountain bike and a gravel bike with disc brakes. The MTB is thru-axle, and the gravel bike is QR. Both sets of wheels for the gravel bike will convert to TA, but I don't have any immediate plans to get another bike to have TA. I'm not sure what I'd gain with TA; at the time Garro built it (2017), it wasn't an option. It is also IS and uses post-mount brakes.

I have a set of rim brake Boyd 60mm set up tubeless on my Pegoretti. I don't have any issues stopping on any terrain, but I don't ride them in the rain. I picked up a set of DuraAce C50s from Clean earlier in the year for my son's collegiate cycling. Alloy rim, no brake pad change needed.

[Philster]

You do you, but my rim brake bikes don’t get used at this point. I will say that if you haven’t ridden one of the newest disk brake bikes from a company with a big R&D budget, you haven’t given them a chance.

[deluz]

I agree with this. I have two rim brakes bikes and also a tandem with rim brakes. I like the simplicity and the look. Caliper brakes can complement the look of a bike and disc brakes detract IMO. Another reason is when I look at new bikes with disc brakes its hard to get under $7K with decent components and even then its no lightweight. When disc brakes first came out I thought WTH? So ugly who would want that? My wife's Synapse has disc brakes, they work and I have not had to touch them so there's that.

[Ralph]

My bikes have rim brakes. I don't ride in rain or where you need strong brakes. But if I needed better brakes for one reason or another, wouldn't hesitate to use disk brakes. To me....it's just that simple and what kind of and where you ride. I don't think my rim brakes cut it on the long descents I have experienced in the NC mountains. Can't even imagine riding in the Rockies on my equipment. Especially knowing better brakes are available.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by Philster

You do you, but my rim brake bikes don’t get used at this point. I will say that if you haven’t ridden one of the newest disk brake bikes from a company with a big R&D budget, you haven’t given them a chance.

Yep you do you is exactly spot on, and I do both ; ).

But for road and casual gravel, well first post states it. Anyway, as to the latest and greatest, I've had Spec Aethos, Pinarello Dogma F10 and Pinarello Grevil+ all with Red AXS. Used a Pinarello Prince disc with Ultegra 11 for 2 weeks in France this summer. Nothing like being at the top of the Col d'Iseran with a mushy front brake that pulls the whole way to the bars to take the fun edge off a long descent. Anyway, sold the Aethos and F10 - really nice bikes but I like others better. I am keeping the Grevil, it's a great bike and could easily be a N=1 if I wanted to roll that way, but happy I don't have to.

[Philster]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

Yep you do you is exactly spot on, and I do both ; ).

But for road and casual gravel, well first post states it. Anyway, as to the latest and greatest, I've had Spec Aethos, Pinarello Dogma F10 and Pinarello Grevil+ all with Red AXS. Used a Pinarello Prince disc with Ultegra 11 for 2 weeks in France this summer. Nothing like being at the top of the Col d'Iseran with a mushy front brake that pulls the whole way to the bars to take the fun edge off a long descent. Anyway, sold the Aethos and F10 - really nice bikes but I like others better. I am keeping the Grevil, it's a great bike and could easily be a N=1 if I wanted to roll that way, but happy I don't have to.

Seems like totally a case of YMMV. I’ve never ridden an Aethos, but my SL7 is a step up from my old SL4. I had an absolutely terrifying wet descent down the Tourmalet with rim brakes and I’m never going back without disks. I also rode the white roads this spring and kept thinking it would be miserable with rim brakes.

[Elefantino]

• Dogma, rim, w/carbon wheels.
• 585, rim, ditto.
• Fierte, rim, w/Shamals.

I think disc brakes are great and I'll probably have another bike with one (sold my GT Grade a while back) but in the meantime, for riding in my neck o' the woods, rim brakes are fine. I'm sure if I were back living in Oakland and riding down Claremont or Fish Ranch on a wet day I'd use the wisdom of older age and want discs.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Matt92037

As a lifelong MTB’er I started road biking pretty late (in 2015). All of the bikes i have owned from the start have been disc.

My first custom road frame which i hope to have soon will have rim brakes. Fingers crossed…

What size bike do you ride?

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I don't ride in rain or where you need strong brakes.

I don't intentionally ride in the rain - but wet roads do happen.. and I don't always need strong brakes - but when I do, I really appreciate having them. My favorite rides are all steep climbs and twisty steep descents where hard braking may be required, and I just never got comfortable with that with carbon wheels and rim brakes, even the best of them (Campy WTO or ENVE 2.2 w eeBrakes and red Campy pads). Why did I need carbon wheels? I didn't. I don't. But I get caught up in the fun of chasing gainz and cheating time and trying new things. Often it leads to headaches. Sometimes not. My most recent foray into discs and electronic shifting and carbon wheels and frames has been mostly flawless, and a joy. A steel bike with alloy rims and mechanical shifting would do everything too. My pendulum may swing back the way OP's did. Who knows. Time. Seasons. Choices. Variety. All good things.