why not hardtail?

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by BikeNY

Respectfully, you're not hearing what I'm saying. I never said you or I or anyone can ride techy tearrain just as fast on a hardtail. I stated a couple of times, as have you, that FS will be faster over techy tearrain, I think we are all agreed on that. The fact that you have rear suspension makes it easier, allowing you to go faster.

But my main point is that for most people, speed is not the goal. Since you are a racer, speed is your goal, so FS makes sense.

Personally, I like the simplicity of a rigid or hardtail bike, knowing full well that it's slower through some sections. But it's also faster though some sections. I challenge myself often to ride harder lines and terrain, and that results in better skills that most certainly can be applied to a FS bike. People who have grown up only riding FS bikes are often amazed what can be ridden on a hardtail or rigid bike.

Oh, and most people with FS bikes are not using them to their capabilities. Sounds like you're not one of them though!

Only 2 minor points - for many of us, racers or not, faster is more fun. Also, it’s not easier, I work just as hard (in fact, average and normalized power numbers are usually higher on the FS, as one can pedal more and coast less), I just go faster.

I don't think we actually disagree, except that I feel a good FS bike is more fun.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by superbowlpats

I own a hardtail (Stumpjumper Evo) and often ride in the Freetown State Forest (aka the birthplace of all rocks in Mass). I'd give anything to own a FS

[Andy sti]

This thread mirrors Paceline's view on gravel - "you don't need anything more than 25mm tires!" So funny.

[oliver1850]

Originally Posted by BikeNY

Some of that is true, and some not to much. First of all, you are assuming that everyone wants to go as fast as possible, which is certainly not the case. Over techy terrain, a FS bike is clearly faster, nobody is arguing that. But a lot of people don't ride terrain like that. Flowy singletrack can be ridden just as fast without full suspension, and climbing can be faster without rear suspension, again, depending on terrain.

But for a lot of riders, speed is not the ultimate goal. Many riders just want to go ride in the woods for a few hours, have fun, get a good workout, and challenge themselves. That can be done perfectly well on a rigid bike, a hardtail, a SS, and even a FS bike. Some people also don't want to spend $5000 to get a well spec'ed mountain bike, a hardtail can be had for much less with similar components. Some people also don't want the added expense and time required to maintain a FS bike, which can be substantial. Also, as somebody else mentioned, the slightly lower speeds also mean when you crash, your injuries are likely to be less sever.

I totally disagree with your statement that riding a hardtail/rigid whatever on trails doesn't improve your skills. If you're doing it right, it most certainly does. It teaches you how to ride smoother and 'lighter' on the bike. You don't have to slow way down and go around all the obstacles, you have to learn to use the 'suspension' you were born with, your arms and legs! Once you've learned that, it can be applied to any bike to make you faster, with the added bonus that you equipment takes much less of a beating and last longer.

Agree with this. I started on a rigid MTB almost 30 years ago, and I wasn't exactly young then. For me it's always been more about going places I couldn't go on a road bike as opposed to covering the most miles in the least time. As far as skills, most important to my riding has been concentrating on the obstacles ahead, picking the right line and the right speed to approach them. That surely applies to whatever type of bike you're riding.

While most of my MTBs are full rigid (I like the simplicity), I do love my Colorado Soft Tail. Would like to ride it more often but don't know what I'd do if the rear shock had a major issue. To me it's a sweet spot in FS frame design. Enough rear travel to really speed up the rough stuff, very little weight penalty, and not much to maintain other than the shock, which could be a problem down the road.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by sparky33

That's grim.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=225082

first you see him, then you don't.....just sayin.

[myette10]

Originally Posted by sparky33

What's wrong with a hardtail?

My mtb is a Santa Cruz Highball 27.5 hardtail with 2.3s and a lightweight build kit. I ride it quite a lot to the point of cannibalizing cx territory too. My local terrain is variable - lots of trails connected by short road segments. Not a lot of elevation, some technical stuff, plenty of single track and fire-roads, some rocks&roots. Typical northeast stuff. I'm a cross country mtb'er.

Lately, I've been getting the nudge to go with a full-suspension bike, from friends and from my inner evil self. A few demo's of XC/trail full-suspension bikes...Santa Cruz, Scott, etc. tell me there are some great options. Certainly, full-suspension is faster going downhill, and the climbing traction is noticeable too. The thing is, none of them are as fun as my hardtail. I think about the next mtb, and I'm still envisioning the hardtail that I already have. It's simple, lightweight and quick, like the BMX bike I rode as a kid. I like picking interesting lines and sometimes not getting it right the first time around. Maybe one of those rowdy hardtail trail bikes could be it. I don't know. Am I crazy for not jumping on the full-sus thing? Should I just get over it?

I rode a steel SS HT for 10 years and then committed to the FS. I was tired of getting beat up. The FS was just the trick.

BTW I'm in Mass and know how rocky it is around here. I don't get off on picking the cleanest lines constantly for 2 hours. That gets old. I want to move and feel the wind in my face. Not sending it or hammering away for the KOM, just want to feel more flow. FS accomplished that. Smoothed out my trails just right.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by Andy sti

This thread mirrors Paceline's view on gravel - "you don't need anything more than 25mm tires!" So funny.

I am getting this image of the average Paceliner's MTB, steel frame, triple crank, Hite Rite, 80mm elastomer fork, giant bar ends, and them telling their skeptical sons, "This is it! This baby was all you needed back in my day. I am passing the family MTB on to you, son. Learn to pick your lines and you'll do fine."

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

I am getting this image of the average Paceliner's MTB, steel frame, triple crank, Hite Rite, 80mm elastomer fork, giant bar ends, and them telling their skeptical sons, "This is it! This baby was all you needed back in my day. I am passing the family MTB on to you, son. Learn to pick your lines and you'll do fine."

Hilarious!
When someone disagrees make fun of them.


Get the hell off my lawn!

[peanutgallery]

Bring your 26er with v-brakes to michaux.
I'll buy the beer, provide the picnic and a designated driver...but I get to laugh all I want

Originally Posted by HenryA

Hilarious!
When someone disagrees make fun of them.


Get the hell off my lawn!

[nmrt]

I think people are getting way too serious about FS and hardtails. Just ride your damn bike and smile. If your bike does not make you smile, get a different bike.

I remind myself that when I drive my Elise, I am grinning ear to ear. And when I take my AMG E63 on the freeway, I am grinning ear to ear. Both are fun.
BTW, I have neither. But you get the idea.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Bring your 26er with v-brakes to michaux.
I'll buy the beer, provide the picnic and a designated driver...but I get to laugh all I want

Six-fitty w/discs ok?
Whats for lunch?

I like expensive beer.

[peanutgallery]

Me too, so it'll rock

Ribs

Originally Posted by HenryA

Six-fitty w/discs ok?
Whats for lunch?

I like expensive beer.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Bring your 26er with v-brakes to michaux.
I'll buy the beer, provide the picnic and a designated driver...but I get to laugh all I want

People were riding 26ers around Michaux for LOTS and lots of years. Heck! *I* rode 26ers for darn near 25 years before moving up to 650b, then 29ers.

Are there faster bikes than 26ers? These days, yes. Are there more fun bikes than 26ers? That's debatable. They're a whole lot of fun depending on how you ride.

M

[peanutgallery]

Me too, and I thought it was fun. Little did I know

Originally Posted by Gummee

People were riding 26ers around Michaux for LOTS and lots of years. Heck! *I* rode 26ers for darn near 25 years before moving up to 650b, then 29ers.

Are there faster bikes than 26ers? These days, yes. Are there more fun bikes than 26ers? That's debatable. They're a whole lot of fun depending on how you ride.

M

[djg]

ok, sold.

Recommendations for a hardtail for a former roadie and cross racer who is really not fit now (and won't be getting back into racing, due to limitations beyond my control, among others)?

Cheap by forum standards? As in, under 2k? This is not about getting serious, or kidding myself about going fast, it's about getting an mtb to do a bit of riding here and there -- mostly not too challenging trails and some even on pavement, towpath, etc.