What are the big 3 waiting for to go sub-compact?

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by marciero

I have a set of the Sugino. Not sure what model but they do use outboard bearings. I just used regular TA rings, an inner and a middle for the outer ring. It must have been a middle position, it is recessed from the inside and I see no chain jam pin. So it seems like you're only giving up the chain jam pin, and the fact that you cant use standard chainring bolts. That doesn't seem too hodgy-podgy. Are you sure the bolts are proprietary? They seemed pretty standard but it's been a while since I installed.

Yes, you can use a middle position 110mm BCD chainring in the outer position of the Sugino OX cranks. Unfortunately though, you are unlikely to find a 110mm BCD middle position chainring larger than 38 teeth, and certainly not one as large as 46 teeth. That's why Sugino had to make their own special outer chainrings for the OX cranks.

The proprietary bolts I was referring to were for the Praxis Works sub-compact crank, which uses a special chainring and bolts to fit a 32 teeth chainring onto a 110mm BCD spider (the smallest normally possible for 110mm BCD is 33 teeth).

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

30 front, 42 back you might as well walk the bike. That is way low, even for my out of shape self

That is very low, but not so uncommon for very steep, long hills. And on pavement anyway, you can still go faster riding these gears than you can walking.

Consider: These sizes of chainrings are common for the Mt. Washington Hill Clmib. And not only can ride faster than you can walk on this climb, you can even ride faster than you can run. There are both running and cycling races on this mountain, and the cycling times are faster than the running times (even though the cyclists have to lift the extra weight of the bike up the mountain).

[Zee]

Originally Posted by KarlC

You would think it would be ez to just look down at my Garmin but as I said during those times I dont chance it.

I have never raced but Thursday nights at 6pm on Fiesta Island in San Diego there could be a pack of 20-40 really strong guys, some ex pros, a rare pro or 2. Im just barely hang on for a few laps and 50x11 does not cut it for me, maybe if I could spin smoother at a higher rpm ?

Its fun to try and pass a tandem on a down hill.

.

You West coast are making me blush.

I ride without data beyond turning Strava on and putting my phone in my jersey at the car, but the pancake Midwest and relatively slow rides I do have been fine on 46/36 and 11/23. Sprints only get to 35-38...

I don’t think I’ve found myself wringing out 46/11 yet, but certainly need more gear off road than I currently have. 28/34 should be enough, but I’ll find out soon.

Seeing any support for the 48t was strange enough, but the previously mentioned Easton product looks terrific.

[Lovetoclimb]

Also in the making it work camp for my gravel riding in Pisgah, the Smokies, and beyond. Around here a 34x40 low gear on my Soma Wolverine is often just getting by. Picture 5 hrs in, and you have a loose 30 minute climb with switchbacks or sustained pitches at 10% gradient. A 1:1 is definitely not going to suffice.

I'm using the Ultegra 46/34 crankset with XT 11-40 and it all shifts remarkably well. However slightly lower without having to increase my cassette size would be nice, especially when I load up that bike for big touring days on said terrain.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by Lovetoclimb

I'm using the Ultegra 46/34 crankset with XT 11-40 and it all shifts remarkably well. However slightly lower without having to increase my cassette size would be nice, especially when I load up that bike for big touring days on said terrain.

If I was loading up a bike for touring on gravel, I'd want a triple crank. I would have the gear range I want with smaller jumps on the cassette. I know that many folks think triples are dead/redundant/unnecessary, but they are invaluable for loaded touring. Trying to do loaded touring with a double crank is, for me, trying to hammer a nail with a socket wrench - wrong tool for the job.

Greg

[93KgBike]

Funny how things can invert themselves over time; back in '98 or '99 I was searching all over for a clamp on front derailleur that would let me run 48/30 on my mountain bike, because I had a twelve mile road-ride to get to the trails and was so tired of spinning along at 46-12. I was able to save almost 20 minutes each way running 48-11, as I recall.

For what it may be worth, there are adapters that allow threaded internal BB in press fit frames. A '98 Zipp 300 carbon crankset running a threaded titanium bb is still lighter than a lot of current OEM setups; pricey though, if you can find it.

[Black Dog]

It seems that riders fall into two groups.

Group one: Prefers small jumps on a cassette and thus a triple is best to maximize range.

Group two: Wants range and does not mind the large jumps between cogs. This is the 1x or sub compact group running a 6-52 on the back.


I would take a triple personally. I hate it when I am in a good rhythm and am 1 gear too big or too small away from being dialled in.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

sram and shimano in particular. the cassettes keep getting bigger and bigger in the back, indicating the acceptance that lower gears are better for lots of people.

if i want a 46/30 up front and a reasonable gear stack in the back - why do i still need to go to a boutique crank option?

i wonder if any of them are considering a crankset with a small ring smaller than the "standard" compact 34t ring?

Those that ‘need’ lower than 1:1 gearing is a teeny, teeny, tiny segment. I wouldn’t expect even shimano to tool up for a crank like that. Actually pretty funny...so many harkened for a ‘compact’...now sounds like what would be perfect, is a ......triple.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Yes, you can use a middle position 110mm BCD chainring in the outer position of the Sugino OX cranks. Unfortunately though, you are unlikely to find a 110mm BCD middle position chainring larger than 38 teeth, and certainly not one as large as 46 teeth. That's why Sugino had to make their own special outer chainrings for the OX cranks.

The proprietary bolts I was referring to were for the Praxis Works sub-compact crank, which uses a special chainring and bolts to fit a 32 teeth chainring onto a 110mm BCD spider (the smallest normally possible for 110mm BCD is 33 teeth).

TA does have these rings. I have a 44 on my Sugino crank. Before that I was doing this middle-as-outer setup with a 110/74 Race Face triple crank set up as a double. As far as I know they are still in production. I've always gotten them from Peter White. He has them listed as large as 46. They get pricey though-the odd-number teeth especially.

[NHAero]

For grins last night, I laid the NDS of a Sugino AT against the NDS of an old Shimano XT (which has a 94/58 BCD, and has 44-32-22) and the difference in the crank arm offset and therefore Q factor is so dramatic - it just doesn't feel like a good option for a road bike.

[BikeNY]

I agree with the need for 'super compact' cranksets. 48/32 and 46/30 would be great. And it really wouldn't be hard to do, as lots of cranks these days use removable spiders and direct mount rings. All they need to do is make a 5 arm 94mm BCD spider with the proper offset for road cranks, or make a direct mount big ring with mounting holes for the smaller ring, again, 94mm BCD would be perfect.

Shimano seems really slow to react to trends like this, and SRAM is pushing their 1x drivetrains, so I'm not expecting anything from them anytime soon. FSA now makes a couple of cranks with those chainring options, with proprietary rings of course.

For me, I don't want super low gearing with a 30t chainring and 46t cassette cog, I want to keep a tighter cassette to keep jumps reasonable and still have low enough gearing. I have no use for a 50x11 top end, totally useless for me. I'm currently running 46/33 TA rings on a 110BCD crank and an 11-36 cassette. Works for most of my riding, but I'd like my low to be lower. My high end is plenty.

Also, someone mentioned a triple being required for touring, I disagree with this. For touring, you need a lower gear range, not a wider gear range. When I'm on tour, I'm usually coasting down the hills and recovering, not trying to push a 50x11 gear!

[bigbill]

I hope that Shimano offers some more variation in their Ultegra line. I've got a 36/46 crankset but I think a 34 would be more useful. The ten tooth jump is nice and smooth, but isn't that big of a difference. My gravel bike has the above crankset and an 11-32 cassette. I guess the solution is an 11-34 but I'd rather have a larger span on the front and a tighter ratio in the rear.

[jtbadge]

Originally Posted by bigbill

I hope that Shimano offers some more variation in their Ultegra line. I've got a 36/46 crankset but I think a 34 would be more useful. The ten tooth jump is nice and smooth, but isn't that big of a difference. My gravel bike has the above crankset and an 11-32 cassette. I guess the solution is an 11-34 but I'd rather have a larger span on the front and a tighter ratio in the rear.

Luckily a 34t Ultegra ring is only like $20. Easy to try that option!

I’m running 46-34 in the front and a SRAM 11-36 in the back.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Luckily a 34t Ultegra ring is only like $20. Easy to try that option!

I’m running 46-34 in the front and a SRAM 11-36 in the back.

Yup, 46-34 is what my all-road bike is running. The issue is when you want a chainring smaller than a 110 bcd allows (34, 33?).

[David Tollefson]

Originally Posted by BikeNY

For me, I don't want super low gearing with a 30t chainring and 46t cassette cog, I want to keep a tighter cassette to keep jumps reasonable and still have low enough gearing.

My position as well. I have a gravel build in-process that will be using a SRAM X5 crank, 39/26 in front and I plan on pairing it with a 11-26 or 11-28 for off-pavement riding. I'd love to get the 42 up front, but apparently for all its listing on the SRAM site, it's only available as OEM.

I'm currently running a 46/34 on FSA Gossamer cranks both for the road bike and the gravel bike, with 11-23 on the road, 11-32 off.