Violation of Paypal User Agreement

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by illuminaught

When I was in grad school (low stipend) at Berkeley (high cost of living)... PayPal fees hurt... So please don't be a condescending prick to poor people who keep crazy tight budgets that include nice bikes... YOLO but frugal.

I know I come off prickish. My feeling is the virtually every budget (exclude the two tails of the bell curve) hits a luxury ceiling. If you are buying luxury leisure items and 3% is causing you pause ... then maybe you are spending too much on the vacation, vacation home, sports car, or fancy bike. So, if 3% equals $3, $300, 3,000,000 it is probably too much for your budget. That was my point.

Also, PL CLs is suppose to offer friendly deals for friends (at least that is how I envision it) so what is $3 dollars amongst friends. Certainly, not something that Causes the OP to create this thread.

Threads like these sicken me because it makes the classifieds something that my ideal view of what they should be ....not.

[jtbadge]

The thing about the fees is that if you follow the rules, you are paying the fee as a seller. Then you have people asking you to pay the fee as a buyer. It's one thing to get dinged the one time (paying for the buyer/seller protection is totally fine), but to get double dipped by cheapskate sellers is really frustrating.

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by -dustin

Venmo weirds me out, so I default to PayPal.

Paypal owns venmo.

🍆💦

[R3awak3n]

Venmo has no fees for a reason. If something goes wrong you are sol. Kind of like paying paypal f&f but worst because transaction can be reversed. I would not pay venmo unoess I know the person

[-dustin]

Originally Posted by tctyres

🍆💦

Quoting for emphasis

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

marc,

for the record, i do not disagree with you. on the books it is written right in the classifieds rules that members should not circumvent the PP user agreement, and i do believe that if anyone is going to use PP's service, they should play by their rules, otherwise find another method of money transfer.

you seem to be implying though, that the Paceline staff, of unpaid volunteers, should be reading every single classified's ad and policing the written or implied payment terms. to cut to the point: this is not possible. in general, there are about 3 or 4 of us who are online routinely, but reading the fine print in every ad posted is just not going to happen.

CUT

Hello Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to positively explain in more detail the relevant facts or ideas.

And yes, I will unquestionably agreed I sometimes create difficult situation for others and myself with my black or white writing/thoughts approach, hey I am Italian. Apologies if anyone was offended.

I will say, I am well aware of the terrific and can't mention enough superlatives for the amazing effort you guys make to keep things running smooth, thanks much!

By bringing the topic up my only real expectation was that members might be a little more aware of the situation and some reasonable agreement with the classified rules would result as a consequence.

Seriously, never had the any real thoughts or expectations that for sale posts would be individually reviewed for forum rules compliance by administrators and moderators.

Grazie ancora!

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by -dustin

Quoting for emphasis

🍆🍆

[joosttx]

damn

[kramnnim]

Side note, you can print first class postage from the PayPal site any time you want.

[Pegoready]

This topic is actually pretty interesting.

I've noticed a lot of super generous sellers here offering great deals, throwing in shipping, multiple huge price drops, etc. but absolutely will not pay the Paypal fee. It's like it's against their religion or core beliefs or something. People get this way about anything perceived as a tax.

This dichotomy happened as soon as Paypal introduced the Friends & Family option. Before this when all Paypal payments involved a fee it just never came up. The seller footed the fee, the same way a merchant foots the credit card processing fees.

So by asking the buyer to cover the fee, one of two scenarios happen:

1) The buyer pays Friends & Family, violates the user agreement (because they're actually buying a good), violates the forum's own rules, and loses their access to any remediation. If it goes great both parties feel awesome for skirting the man. If the deal goes south, people chide the buyer for being so foolish.

2) The buyer pays Goods & Service, pays the fee, and appears untrusting of the seller which is an awkward look and unavoidable by the buyer. This thread: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...ghlight=paypal
literally shows what happens when the buyer appears untrusting of the seller. The buyer miscalculated the fee by 3 cents and the seller lost his sh*t and called the deal off.

It seems like regardless of the choices, paying the sale price via Goods & Services is never done anymore.

I don't think 3% is insignificant. I also think the seller should foot the fee and assume it in their asking price and not discount for cash equivalent payments.

[johnmdesigner]

These are very nice classifieds. Why do you want to ruin them?
I have no idea how to calculate PP fees. If I am interested I will simply ask how much you really want for the item.
I would never sell anything that way myself. Asking the buyer to figure out and compensate you for your fees is, well, not neighborly.
If I don't like the sellers terms I will just move on.
Could the mods pass a rule stating that all offers will be a set price? I suppose they could and then they will spend all their free time policing the classifieds.
Grow up and take responsibility for your purchasing decisions. If you don't like the terms then move on.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Clean39 aside, we are a rounding error for PayPal. They have much, much bigger fish to fry.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Seriously though, I'm not a business. If I was, I'd be homeless and/or riding borrowed unicycle.

[pdmtong]

don't close the classifieds yet - after 7 years of diligent inventory reduction ("un-hoarding") I am getting really close to the finish line. no more looking at a skewer and thinking "I can build a bike around this"

FWIW..just price to include fees and ship. and use the PP ship function (works for Canada (includes customs form) too) so you can access first class parcel shipping for items < one pound.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

don't close the classifieds yet - after 7 years of diligent inventory reduction ("un-hoarding") I am getting really close to the finish line. no more looking at a skewer and thinking "I can build a bike around this"

FWIW..just price to include fees and ship. and use the PP ship function (works for Canada (includes customs form) too) so you can access first class parcel shipping for items < one pound.

https://www.pirateship.com/

Another good option...

[pbarry]

Originally Posted by johnmdesigner

These are very nice classifieds. Why do you want to ruin them?
I have no idea how to calculate PP fees. If I am interested I will simply ask how much you really want for the item.
I would never sell anything that way myself. Asking the buyer to figure out and compensate you for your fees is, well, not neighborly.
If I don't like the sellers terms I will just move on.
Could the mods pass a rule stating that all offers will be a set price? I suppose they could and then they will spend all their free time policing the classifieds.
Grow up and take responsibility for your purchasing decisions. If you don't like the terms then move on.

Well said.