650b wheels - is this still a thing?

[spoonrobot]

650b makes a lot less sense now that disc brakes are the norm for all road enduro bikes. I think it's still a relevant wheelsize for riders under a certain height and pairs best with low-trail but otherwise it doesn't offer much for general riding over 700c.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

650b makes a lot less sense now that disc brakes are the norm for all road enduro bikes. I think it's still a relevant wheelsize for riders under a certain height and pairs best with low-trail but otherwise it doesn't offer much for general riding over 700c.

One has independent choice of both brake type and wheel size. If anything the ubiquity of disc brakes and disc-specific 650b rims makes 650b a more attractive option than previously. (For that matter there are still good choices of rim brake 650b rims, including some new models, despite some proclaiming the death of rim brakes)

As far as what 650b has to offer over 700c, is anyone really riding 2+" tires on 700c wheels? Yes, I know people are, but unless the bike is designed for this the bottom bracket is getting pretty high.

[2metalhips]

Originally Posted by marciero

One has independent choice of both brake type and wheel size. If anything the ubiquity of disc brakes and disc-specific 650b rims makes 650b a more attractive option than previously. (For that matter there are still good choices of rim brake 650b rims, including some new models, despite some proclaiming the death of rim brakes)

As far as what 650b has to offer over 700c, is anyone really riding 2+" tires on 700c wheels? Yes, I know people are, but unless the bike is designed for this the bottom bracket is getting pretty high.

The Salsa Cutthroat is designed for 700c 2+" tires. I haven't had a chance to try one but plan to. Popular gravel and bike packing rig.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

650b makes a lot less sense now that disc brakes are the norm for all road enduro bikes.

Could you clarify why? I don't understand the implication.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Could you clarify why? I don't understand the implication.

Yeah, I kinda feel the opposite way and am curious about this sentiment as well. IMO, disc brakes make wheel swaps a non-issue.

I remember an old canti frame I had, could fit 700x44 MutanoRaptors (anyone else remember those?) It was fun, but with the bike being designed around 700x35 and already having a high BB, it was really unstable through the rough despite the big rollover. Also, the wheels and tires were heavy and it was a chore to get that bike up to speed. Something like a Cutthroat is intended to be stable with a load through that stuff, the design considerations are different.

I will accept that for "general riding", at least as I define it for this category of bike, something like 700x40 seems to be the sweet spot. I like my 650b on rougher gravel and singletrack, but prefer the bigger wheels on longer mixed routes.

[owly]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Yeah, I kinda feel the opposite way and am curious about this sentiment as well. IMO, disc brakes make wheel swaps a non-issue.

I remember an old canti frame I had, could fit 700x44 MutanoRaptors (anyone else remember those?) It was fun, but with the bike being designed around 700x35 and already having a high BB, it was really unstable through the rough despite the big rollover. Also, the wheels and tires were heavy and it was a chore to get that bike up to speed. Something like a Cutthroat is intended to be stable with a load through that stuff, the design considerations are different.

I will accept that for "general riding", at least as I define it for this category of bike, something like 700x40 seems to be the sweet spot. I like my 650b on rougher gravel and singletrack, but prefer the bigger wheels on longer mixed routes.

As much as I like running 650b 2" across the rougher stuff on the long rides, I'm wondering what something like the Snoqualmie Pass extralight 700x44? would feel like across milder gravel and paved roads. Too big a diameter?
Currently have 700x35 as an option for this.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by owly

As much as I like running 650b 2" across the rougher stuff on the long rides, I'm wondering what something like the Snoqualmie Pass extralight 700x44? would feel like across milder gravel and paved roads. Too big a diameter?
Currently have 700x35 as an option for this.

This is also what I've come to, at least for now. I use 650b 50mm lightweight slicks for terrible roads or mixed use bikepacking, 650b 54mm lightweight knobs for mostly dirt/gravel/rough riding and 700x35 for mostly road or manicured gravel like you'd see on a MUP or rail-to-trail.

I have 700x60 slicks on a bike and have ridden the same tires on a Fargo and they are awesome for the right rider (big) and bike (big), but that's a large diameter wheel.

[fa63]

Originally Posted by owly

As much as I like running 650b 2" across the rougher stuff on the long rides, I'm wondering what something like the Snoqualmie Pass extralight 700x44? would feel like across milder gravel and paved roads. Too big a diameter?

Currently have 700x35 as an option for this.

I am 6' tall, ride a Large frame with 700x42c tires (which measure a true 45 mm) on mostly gravel roads, and it feels really good.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Could you clarify why? I don't understand the implication.

(A) part of the reason 650b came back was the lack of good brake options for larger tires + fenders + "road" clearances. If you don't have to worry about your caliper arms going around a fender, don't have to worry about close in brake/stay bridges, 650b makes less sense. This was covered in a broad arc through several Bicycle Quarterly issues and is sorta built on what Grant Peterson was already doing.

With disc brakes you don't need to reduce wheelsize while bumping up tire size to get to a reasonable general size (~38mm was the original demi-ballon ideal from BQ, 650bx42mm happened because the first shipment of Grand Bois tires were slightly larger than specified and it worked well enough) while fitting fenders and brakes. Almost any non-pure road bike will take 700cx38 which is equivalent to 650bx47 in comfort but the former is faster.

[Burning Pines]

I really want to try a 650b bike but I'm 6' and a 29er convert for mtb so I'm not sure why I wouldn't want the rollover of a big 700c off road. I do more mixed terrain than gravel specifically. Would like to borrow a friend's bike at some point though and see what I'm missing! Anyways it doesn't appear to be dying if anything I see soooo many bikes with Horizons and Byways now.

I think I'm most drawn to those earlier implementations you see on bob or whatever with 650b x 40ish and fenders on old trek road bikes. Those are really appealing.

[Hilltopperny]

I have a set of both for my Drifter and prefer the 650b 48mm tires over rough terrain, but feel faster with 700c 35mm.

I ran it 650b almost exclusively last season and it served me well for the Ididaride gravel/D2R2 and the farmer's daughter. The latter was a muddy rutted mess and I'm not sure that I'd have been able to ride the muddy sections with the 35mm tire.

I recently threw the 700c back on the bike and it definitely feels faster rolling and seems to hold speed a bit easier than the 650b. I do feel like I can get the 650b to spin up faster and climbs seem a bit easier to me. This is all based on feel though as I don't actually use any technology to measure the data. Both sets of wheels are Reynolds ATR and I am 5'8 for reference.

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[Drmojo]

Originally Posted by tony_mm

Back in the day we had 650 wheels on triathlon bikes and some road bike. They were to slow as they didn‘t hold very well the momentum. Except for XXS frame 650 wheels are not the best for road bike and triathlon/ TT bikes. Same apply for 26“ wheels on MTB.

For bikes with wider tires the 650(B) make however sense.

Smaller wheels are a teeny bit more aero
And reduced weight makes a better climbing wheel
Especially good size wheels for smaller cyclists and many women triathletes
Paula Newby Fraser did Ok on 650c wheels...
I set many of my tri PRs on 3 different 650c bikes
The 700 c bikes were 5% slower unless course was dead flat
In which case rear disc wheels are of course faster
(from a has been multi sport racer)
party on!

[AllanVarcoe]

I love the aero argument. For me, like a 6'3" tall 200 pounder needs to worry about aero. Haha! (I run 700x40 Nano's and love them)

I'm currently finishing up a frame for my 72 year old Dad built around WTB Byway's. (650bx47) He's 6'5" and 230 so aero won't be a factor there either. LoL! He's so excited to have a softer ride. He currently is on 700x25.



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[David Tollefson]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

Paula Newby Fraser did Ok on 650c wheels...

If I remember right, her Desert Princess bike sported 24" wheels.

[Ttx1]

slight threadjack.

what's a good 650b x 2.0 (650 x 50, +/-) snow tire?

open to studded, studdable, and non-studded options.

TIA!