vsalon closed today

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by andrew+

We don't need you to make individual lifestyle changes, we don't need you to feel guilty. We need you to support comprehensive federal climate policy which changes the rules of the game we're all caught up in.

No amount of individual consumer or lifestyle choices, aggregated up, will solve climate change.

This is true. Washington needs to be rid of special interest groups and fossil fuel lobbies.

[shinomaster]

Although, If enough consumers around the world changed their shopping habits it would eventually change politics and the world. When people stop spending $$$, corporations listen.

[fa63]

I am not a fan of the "individual actions can't solve this" attitude. We can lead by example, and every little bit helps. Here are some simple things that require little to no money and some minor inconvenience:

- Use less water: water has embodied energy (to clean, distribute, etc.); take shorter showers (or buy lower flow fixtures, but that costs money, whereas shorter showers are free)
- Switch all your light bulbs to LEDs: costs have come way down, plus they last much longer
- Buy a smart thermostat (they are pretty cheap now), and bump your thermostat up (or down) by a degree of two. It will be slightly uncomfortable at first but the body adjusts. If you are too hot while sleeping, buy a personal fan.
- Recycling: it takes far, far less energy to produce plastics/aluminum/paper using recycled materials than it takes using virgin materials.
- Eat less meat (it has already been mentioned)
- Ride your bike/walk more: this goes without saying, especially here ~40% of all vehicle trips in the US are under 3 miles. Replacing 1 or 2 out of 10 trips with bikes (or walking if it is under a mile or so) can make a significant difference.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

I feel a tinge of guilt every time I pull off some saran wrap to cover leftovers, use a ziplock bag, get in my car (when I know I could ride a bike), grab a plastic bag at the grocery store, or eat meat. I'm by no means a vegetarian, but I've been trying to dedicate at least one day a week to preparing only vegetarian dishes and limiting beef to no more than once every two weeks.

And this is what should be happening. No one expects (or, no one should) us to all be perfect. But it doesn't do much good if 1% of the world is perfect at not using plastic, not eating meat, etc. We need 75-90% of the world doing better at it. Use LESS, reuse MORE, recycle what you can, and try to do a bit more tomorrow. It's the only hope we've got, because we're never going to get more than a smattering of people to do it right all the time.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by andrew+

We don't need you to make individual lifestyle changes, we don't need you to feel guilty. We need you to support comprehensive federal climate policy which changes the rules of the game we're all caught up in.

No amount of individual consumer or lifestyle choices, aggregated up, will solve climate change.

I would say, "Whoah, everyone hold on to your wallets," but we all know more important policies will take priority, policies like fining businesses for giving out drinking straws so the law will appease hipsters with their annual iPhone purchase in one hand and in the other, one of their twice daily Starbucks orders in a disposable cup with a disposable cardboard sleeve and a disposable plastic top.

I would like to hear more about these comprehensive federal climate policies you envision. Could you express them in five year plans?

[andrew+]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

I would say, "Whoah, everyone hold on to your wallets," but we all know more important policies will take priority, policies like fining businesses for giving out drinking straws so the law will appease hipsters with their annual iPhone purchase in one hand and in the other, one of their twice daily Starbucks orders in a disposable cup with a disposable cardboard sleeve and a disposable plastic top.

I would like to hear more about these comprehensive federal climate policies you envision. Could you express them in five year plans?

One thing that makes democratic politics workable is that you don't have to convince everyone in order for big changes to happen. You've demonstrated very clearly through your posts that you are one of those people.

For others, the Green New Deal is the only serious outline I've read. It's basically a green industrial program that recognizes that basic social welfare programs are also needed to insulate people from the major shocks (e.g., job losses) that a rapid shift away from fossil fuels would entail.

A major carbon tax could also work, but is much less politically feasible, in my opinion.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by Irishgirl

This has been an interesting thread for a variety reasons...and some of which gets discussed at the dinner table with my kids.

My oldest I referenced in an earlier post within this thread was home from school this weekend (high school senior).

We spent some time discussing the points made within this thread and sharing her thoughts....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smart kid. Kudos to you!

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by andrew+

For others, the Green New Deal is the only serious outline I've read. It's basically a green industrial program that recognizes that basic social welfare programs are also needed to insulate people from the major shocks (e.g., job losses) that a rapid shift away from fossil fuels would entail.

Cost $93 trillion.
By AOC's own admission: 40 - 50% of GDP as opposed to the 21% the government currently spends.

I didn't see anything in there like empowering industry to build 200 fourth generation nuclear power plants or beginning to reprocess spent nuclear fuel or maybe $50 billion a year for nuclear fusion research. I guess there wouldn't be enough money after the planned handouts to those "unwilling to work."

The green new deal is a perfect example of why people oppose climate solutions and climate science. It is pushing a political agenda under the guise of being green. It's leftist social engineering that has nothing to do with climate.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Just divorce yourself from having to look to a political party or movement for identification, and you can support the truth wherever it appears, live your individual values, etc.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I will always be Independant. Never have truer words been said and said a long long time ago predicting what we are in today then:

"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

FAREWELL ADDRESS | SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1796

[redir]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

The moment someone mentions the very large elephant in the room, people start crying racism because the increase is mostly coming from Africa. The problem is too many people. Not addressing it is trying to solve a large problem by fixing up a few corner cases. It's why you cannot take any of this virtue signalling seriously.

It's the same with phony environmentalist who claim they want to protect the USA's wild places yet have allied themselves with party's who refuse to do anything about illegal immigration. Overuse and encroachment is the problem, not too few protected areas.

This is an interesting problem that immigration would greatly help. And many immigrants are migrating away from places that are affected due to climate change.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...ntent=business

[gemship]

Interesting thread, more ineresting that it hasn't been closed yet. But I guess since you're all wicked smaht and kept it civil the mods give the gift of more gab. LOL.

So I just lived another day in my life that day. At the end of the day I turned on my computer and read about the world wide demonstrations going on. That's how I found out about it. I guess I pretty much live under a rock. LOL. But seriously how would you know enough to join in the fun? What do all these people do rally on twitter or something like that? They kinda got they're own little click don't they?

[sipmeister]

Originally Posted by fa63

Actually, what is racist is to blame the world's future problems on the future Africans, who have had nothing to do with the situation that non-Africans have put the world in.

The same concept applies to the US telling China and India to curb their emissions: it was OK for us to pollute all these years (and continue to do so at a high rate) while achieving economic prosperity, but it is not OK for them to do the same. Do as I say, not as I do; what a priviliged position...

The US contributed during the Industrial Revolutions, during which time coal was king. Solar and wind weren't available as power options at that time. China and India however, still continue to use coal and build more coal plants. Sure, the US uses coal too as it switches some plants to NG, but not to the same degree that China does. Are you indicating since the US had its heyday with coal, we need to let China and India do the same?

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

the concept and term "virtue signalling" is so American, can we leave that one behind next year and just be real about things?

What else would you call posturing without substance to show how green/pro-whatever/etc you are?

M

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by Gummee

What else would you call posturing without substance to show how green/pro-whatever/etc you are?

M

being human like everyone else? this is a thing humans do. what has this to do with being green? what is being green anyway?

if its virtuous, why arent you cats doing it?

m glad it appears the majority are sane. its shocking to me there are still folks all bent out of shape on a lefistist social agenda an the such... its just a different way to approach problems we have never had before. should we use the same approach for new problems? probably not.

if "socialist lefty agenda" is what WE end up wanting and voting for, then so be it, this so called righty crap isnt exactly amazing, its sort of killing things fast and gives all priority to money, not life. i can see why so many are into it, since we worship money here.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by Gummee

What else would you call posturing without substance to show how green/pro-whatever/etc you are?
.
M

Never heard this term until this thread. Looked it up on the internet. This blog seems to capture well all that is wrong, ATMO, with the term: https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/stop-...tue-signalling.

Here's a another one: https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...matise-empathy

What else you gonna say in response to people's positions . How about something substantive rather than a deflecting perjorative.