Keytone Esters

[joev]

Thought I'd see this in the forum by now...maybe missed it so mods please move if I did... Has anyone used a keytone ester supplements and have any first hand experience with the "consequences"?

I'd seen the topic come up in this year's Tour. A story I read said that Deceuninck Quick-Step used them. I'd also read that it's questionable if they are any benefit.

Thoughts/comments?

[gasman]

Well, it’s spelled ketone esters but beyond that I haven’t heard about using them.

[joosttx]

Are you talking about HVMN?

Yes, and it works. I used it 3 times and had consistently better performance (not strikingly better) than with normal fuel on a 45 minutes threshold climb. But way too expensive. Tastes like poison.

[Clean39T]

I prefer keytone esters light - all the flavor, less calories..

Err. GCN did a little bit on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAJyp_f-DQA

[Mikej]

https://www.businessinsider.com/we-t...-ester-2017-11

$60 Million invested - wow. $33 a pop -wow again.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by Mikej

https://www.businessinsider.com/we-t...-ester-2017-11

$60 Million invested - wow. $33 a pop -wow again.

Ithink it was part of a defense project looking at alternative foods of soldiers. That’s where they are getting the $60M from- at least most of it.

[Tickdoc]

and I found a good read that goes way over my head.

https://peterattiamd.com/experience-...ous-ketones-2/

I'm trying to get past the Upset GI aspect of this. I really like a non-upset GI when on long rides.

[jfranci3]

Studies showing 15% power output over 2 hours; they roll back overtraining symptoms. This was on a $300/day diet of them, may it's only $100/day. These look like they could be the new EPO, except non-deadly.

[Mikej]

I'm trying to get past the Upset GI aspect of this. I really like a non-upset GI when on long rides.[/QUOTE]

I concur - as well as $30

[Alaska Mike]

I looked at them, but I could gain 100% improvement in performance by putting down the fork once in a while. Cheaper, too.

We'll see how WADA approaches them in the future. I'm sure the supplement guys are going to be all over this trying to refine the formula in the meantime.

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by jfranci3

Studies showing 15% power output over 2 hours; they roll back overtraining symptoms. This was on a $300/day diet of them, may it's only $100/day. These look like they could be the new EPO, except non-deadly.

It is true recovery is easier after hard efforts. I doubt they are the new EPO. I remember being an animal while treating poison oak with prednisone. The results with HVMN is a quarter or less of that.

It doesn’t upset your stomach once you recover from drinking the stuff which almost makes you vomit. That take 3 minutes. The issue is no one that knows anything knows how long term use of acetone affects the body.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by joosttx

It is true recovery is easier after hard efforts. I doubt they are the new EPO. I remember being an animal while treating poison oak with prednisone. The results with HVMN is a quarter or less of that.

It doesn’t upset your stomach once you recover from drinking the stuff which almost makes you vomit. That take 3 minutes. The issue is no one that knows anything knows how long term use of acetone affects the body.

And a good side effect: acetone is really good for removing glue residue from handlebars.

[rbtmcardle]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

and I found a good read that goes way over my head.



https://peterattiamd.com/experience-...ous-ketones-2/



I'm trying to get past the Upset GI aspect of this. I really like a non-upset GI when on long rides.

Lots of great info if you search the following sources.

Peter Attia
Dominic D’Agostino (one of the primary research scientists working for Navy)
Benjamin Bikman

And of course Phinney and Volek..pioneers in this field.

I’ve been eating a mostly ketogenic diet so generally don’t need or use exogenous ketones and can ride 6 hours on water alone. Maybe some nuts.. for certain the highest intensity output is fueled by glycogen but much of the riding we do can be fueled by ketones.

I bought a 3 pack of the HVMN brand.. disgusting to drink but a noticeable improvement in my ability to sustain efforts on a recent trip to Italy.

I don’t have issues with GI at this point..there was an adaptive phase but nothing extraordinary




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[false_Aest]

I don't buy it 100% unless you're fatmax is really high (e.g world tour pro).

Spend 2-10 years working on your fatmax and I bet you'll benefit.


In the meantime go keto and enjoy having eggs sauteed in bacon for breakfast, ground beef and veggies cooked in bacon fat for lunch, bacon fat for dinner and fat bombs for desert (almost joking but not really).

Also, if you go keto, allow 8-12 weeks for adaptation and a return to decent riding. I have yet to meet a cyclist that really became fat adapted in 6 like the websites say. This includes yours truly.

[joev]

Thanks for the references and replies. Yes, I need spell check.