What’s on your coffee bench?

[Marcovelo]

Hard to say how common it is; you do hear this story once in a while. And I imagine tracking down the offending particle could involve disassembling many parts.

I don't think this should dissuade someone from descaling (not that that is what anyone here is advising), because the consequences of not descaling are certainly more severe. As is often the case, maintenance is generally preferable to repair.

All these E61 machines are expensive, but they also tend to be serviceable, as these two stories indicate. I feel like I am fairly mechanically-minded, but if you can fix a bike you can probably fix these machines with help from the parts vendors, who I have found to be helpful. If you have a double boiler or HX machine and use it for years, you will eventually have to do some maintenance. Although that said, other than descaling twice a year and repacking the portafilter gasket and screen once a year, I have had to do nothing else. Well, backflush once a week or so.

[echappist]

i'd echo the sentiments above

the reason why i'm on the Rancilio Silvia is b/c I neglected to descale my Starbucks Via Venezia (essentially a Saeco Aroma). That machine produced pretty decent shots, all things considered, but i just didn't give it the maintenance. Toward the end, I can actually see precipitates coming out of the group head...

[stackie]

Echappist,

I'd say that shot is way too fast and underextracted, just my opinion though. I timed it and it was 11 seconds, unless you speeded the video. Note how blond it is at the end. My goal is 30grams of espresso in 30 seconds from 18 grams of coffee. My Slayer allows prolonged preinfusion at line pressure before initiating full pump pressure, so I preinfuse at line pressure until I see drops on the bottom of portafilter and then go to full pump pressure. I don't count that 25 seconds of preinfusion in my 30 seconds. If you don't have that option, then I'd want to see drops on the bottom of basket in 5-6 seconds and get your 30 grams of coffee in 30 seconds. You don't need preinfusion for great espresso. It just helps get the bright sweet notes from light roasted coffees, especially Africans.

Without preinfusion, I'd stick with more classic Italian espresso blends.
Brazil/Central Americans/maybe 10% robusta (though that is really just for crema). Or maybe a Mocha/Java blend. Or maybe some single origin Centrals.

Try tightening your grinder a little until your shot slows down. If you are trying to do espresso from Africans go further until your shot slows to 45 seconds. I know some baristas who do pretty well with that on the Africans.

Jon

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by stackie

Echappist,

I'd say that shot is way too fast and underextracted, just my opinion though. I timed it and it was 11 seconds, unless you speeded the video. Note how blond it is at the end. My goal is 30grams of espresso in 30 seconds from 18 grams of coffee. My Slayer allows prolonged preinfusion at line pressure before initiating full pump pressure, so I preinfuse at line pressure until I see drops on the bottom of portafilter and then go to full pump pressure. I don't count that 25 seconds of preinfusion in my 30 seconds. If you don't have that option, then I'd want to see drops on the bottom of basket in 5-6 seconds and get your 30 grams of coffee in 30 seconds. You don't need preinfusion for great espresso. It just helps get the bright sweet notes from light roasted coffees, especially Africans.

Without preinfusion, I'd stick with more classic Italian espresso blends.
Brazil/Central Americans/maybe 10% robusta (though that is really just for crema). Or maybe a Mocha/Java blend. Or maybe some single origin Centrals.

Try tightening your grinder a little until your shot slows down. If you are trying to do espresso from Africans go further until your shot slows to 45 seconds. I know some baristas who do pretty well with that on the Africans.

Jon

Good call out on timing if that is really the case. After I commented what a pretty shot it was, I thought about asking the timing as well. For a double on the Silvia, my personal experience is it should be in the 20-25 seconds range.

[echappist]

thanks for the comments. I should have been more clear about the shot length. It's 3 seconds of pre-infusion and 33 seconds of extraction. I cut out a bit, as i didn't want to bore people with the entire shot. Will take a photo of the end product tomorrow.

the annoying thing is that my grinder is just okay to support the Silvia. Sometimes I get 60 grams of coffee on 33 seconds; other times 45. On a few occasions, I had to stop extraction after only 20-25 seconds, as it would otherwise overflow. Surprisingly, got lucky on this shot, but didn't catch the end product (oversight, come to think of it)

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by ptourkin

This video explains some of the perceived better points of the Profitec at that price point, including IIRC a modified E61. Looks like a solid machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foaHFOXocgE&t=612s

Thanks for linking to those guys ... very informative on everything with lots of vids
https://youtu.be/foaHFOXocgE

[stackie]

Echappist,

That’s good timing. Still blonding early though.

Do you weigh your espresso doing into the filter basket? If you aren’t guaranteeing a consistent dose you are introducing another variable to the equation. I use a 15 dollar scale from amazon. Until you go this you can’t blame the grinder. I forget what you are using for a grinder.

Early blonding can be caused by channeling. You might try stirring the coffee with a tip of a paper clip after grinding. Then level using Stockfleth’s maneuver, a turning if the basket as you level with a finger. I like to do all my basket prep out of the portafilter then drop in to the portafilter when ready to brew. I pull out the spring clip in the portafilter to make this easier.

BTW, yes I am insane.

Jon

[jpritchet74]

Originally Posted by stackie

Echappist,

I'd say that shot is way too fast and underextracted, just my opinion though. I timed it and it was 11 seconds, unless you speeded the video. Note how blond it is at the end. My goal is 30grams of espresso in 30 seconds from 18 grams of coffee. My Slayer allows prolonged preinfusion at line pressure before initiating full pump pressure, so I preinfuse at line pressure until I see drops on the bottom of portafilter and then go to full pump pressure. I don't count that 25 seconds of preinfusion in my 30 seconds. If you don't have that option, then I'd want to see drops on the bottom of basket in 5-6 seconds and get your 30 grams of coffee in 30 seconds. You don't need preinfusion for great espresso. It just helps get the bright sweet notes from light roasted coffees, especially Africans.

Without preinfusion, I'd stick with more classic Italian espresso blends.
Brazil/Central Americans/maybe 10% robusta (though that is really just for crema). Or maybe a Mocha/Java blend. Or maybe some single origin Centrals.

Try tightening your grinder a little until your shot slows down. If you are trying to do espresso from Africans go further until your shot slows to 45 seconds. I know some baristas who do pretty well with that on the Africans.

Jon

Jon - you are down in Monterey, right? I think that you need to offer to host an "all things espresso" morning where you teach us NorNal guys/gals these things. Latte art too. Then we ride!

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by stackie

Echappist,

That’s good timing. Still blonding early though.

Do you weigh your espresso doing into the filter basket? If you aren’t guaranteeing a consistent dose you are introducing another variable to the equation. I use a 15 dollar scale from amazon. Until you go this you can’t blame the grinder. I forget what you are using for a grinder.

Early blonding can be caused by channeling. You might try stirring the coffee with a tip of a paper clip after grinding. Then level using Stockfleth’s maneuver, a turning if the basket as you level with a finger. I like to do all my basket prep out of the portafilter then drop in to the portafilter when ready to brew. I pull out the spring clip in the portafilter to make this easier.

BTW, yes I am insane.

Jon

Good tips. I aim for consistency through dogmatic technique, but you are certainly correct that it is easy to get inconsistent dosings without a measure. I took a break for a little while with my machine and just did French Press for a bit so have been recently revisiting my technique. Will keep these ideas in mind. Thanks.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by stackie

Echappist,

That’s good timing. Still blonding early though.

Do you weigh your espresso doing into the filter basket? If you aren’t guaranteeing a consistent dose you are introducing another variable to the equation. I use a 15 dollar scale from amazon. Until you go this you can’t blame the grinder. I forget what you are using for a grinder.

Early blonding can be caused by channeling. You might try stirring the coffee with a tip of a paper clip after grinding. Then level using Stockfleth’s maneuver, a turning if the basket as you level with a finger. I like to do all my basket prep out of the portafilter then drop in to the portafilter when ready to brew. I pull out the spring clip in the portafilter to make this easier.

BTW, yes I am insane.

Jon

Hi Jon,

Many thanks for the advice. Yes, I am weighing the grounds (on a scale claiming accuracy down to 0.1 g), both before grinding and afterwards. However, I think you are spot-on re: channeling. You could even observe a little bit of it in the video, as the position of the drip changed during the shot. There's a lot of clumping on my machine (Baratza Virtuoso Preciso), and I think the channeling comes with the territory, so to speak. May be time for me to change grinders.

Jim

PS. You are not insane. You are a great resource to this community with your contributions

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by stackie

Here goes. Slayer single group machine. Kafatek Monolith Flat grinder. Pullman tamper. VST precision baskets. Left Coast Guatemala Hue Hue finca palo blanco estate. Rapha cappucino cup by NotNeutral

A few action shots to follow.

Jon

Holy ****.

[livingminimal]

18g of coffee
Extraction should start inside 6-10 seconds
Total extraction should not be less than 24 and more than 30.
Should get 30-40g - 1/5oz-2.0oz from that.

Few recipes for a double are going to fall outside that. I cant imagine a scenario where an 11second extraction actually tasted like anything but a sour sour lemon.

Also, on descaling. I am in the "never" camp.
I use these religiously:
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/ro...servoir-filter

Also, here is Andrew Meo talking about never descaling:
https://youtu.be/QzOAi30Ug50

[jpritchet74]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

18g of coffee
Extraction should start inside 6-10 seconds
Total extraction should not be less than 24 and more than 30.
Should get 30-40g - 1/5oz-2.0oz from that.

Few recipes for a double are going to fall outside that. I cant imagine a scenario where an 11second extraction actually tasted like anything but a sour sour lemon.

Also, on descaling. I am in the "never" camp.
I use these religiously:
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/ro...servoir-filter

Also, here is Andrew Meo talking about never descaling:
https://youtu.be/QzOAi30Ug50

Thanks for those links!

[stackie]

Originally Posted by pritchet74

Jon - you are down in Monterey, right? I think that you need to offer to host an "all things espresso" morning where you teach us NorNal guys/gals these things. Latte art too. Then we ride!

I’m not huge give a lecture to a big group guy. But if anyone is in the area, I’d be happy to have a few people over for coffee talk, demos, drinking coffee and riding. PM me if you are ever this way. Goes for anyone.

Jon

[jpritchet74]

Originally Posted by stackie

I’m not huge give a lecture to a big group guy. But if anyone is in the area, I’d be happy to have a few people over for coffee talk, demos, drinking coffee and riding. PM me if you are ever this way. Goes for anyone.

Jon

That sounds perfect to me! I will let you know when I will be down that way next - I feel like there is this whole world out there about the intricacies of espresso that I need to start learning about.