Modern Vehicles

[glepore]

Spud's thoughts in the industry thread got me to thinking about safety being a primary reason that road cycling is stagnant, and I have to agree. I've always blamed phones. I think I'm wrong.

See, I drive cars from the mid 90's by choice-I like german luxury cars, and the mid 90's were a sweet spot - cars that were about quality and the driving experience, before they became about "features". As a result, I have normal old school din radios and individual buttons for climate control etc.

Last night I drove my s-i-l's '17 Toyota Rav4 into town for her while she was visiting. Crap, no wonder the doggone thing has driver assists like lane departure warnings etc. The entire center stack is dominated by a color lcd screen with multiple menus and submenus to access any of the "automation/infotainment". Even though I didn't touch it, its lit presence was a distraction, let alone if I had tried to access something.

Now I get driver aids like the annoying lane departure system that tugs at the wheel if you move laterally without a turn signal on. Its a liability avoiding device that is NECESSARY because the operator is no longer likely to be do anything other than monitoring systems.

It made me think of Lion Air. Where the hell is the circuit breaker to shut off the lane departure crap when the system farts and puts me into nose down trim?

[oldpotatoe]

Yup, my kid's Honda Civic center console and it's not EVEN the most complicated or inclusive. Tesla is just plain dummm

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by glepore

Spud's thoughts in the industry thread got me to thinking about safety being a primary reason that road cycling is stagnant, and I have to agree. I've always blamed phones. I think I'm wrong.

See, I drive cars from the mid 90's by choice-I like german luxury cars, and the mid 90's were a sweet spot - cars that were about quality and the driving experience, before they became about "features". As a result, I have normal old school din radios and individual buttons for climate control etc.

Last night I drove my s-i-l's '17 Toyota Rav4 into town for her while she was visiting. Crap, no wonder the doggone thing has driver assists like lane departure warnings etc. The entire center stack is dominated by a color lcd screen with multiple menus and submenus to access any of the "automation/infotainment". Even though I didn't touch it, its lit presence was a distraction, let alone if I had tried to access something.

Now I get driver aids like the annoying lane departure system that tugs at the wheel if you move laterally without a turn signal on. Its a liability avoiding device that is NECESSARY because the operator is no longer likely to be do anything other than monitoring systems.

It made me think of Lion Air. Where the hell is the circuit breaker to shut off the lane departure crap when the system farts and puts me into nose down trim?

Just curious what you thought of the Rav4 besides the lights? Drive OK? Ive been thinking about the new 2019(they look super cool). Was gonna go hybrid but then I realized that the hybrids get worse highway mileage than straight gasoline cars.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by glepore

Spud's thoughts in the industry thread got me to thinking about safety being a primary reason that road cycling is stagnant, and I have to agree. I've always blamed phones. I think I'm wrong.

See, I drive cars from the mid 90's by choice-I like german luxury cars, and the mid 90's were a sweet spot - cars that were about quality and the driving experience, before they became about "features". As a result, I have normal old school din radios and individual buttons for climate control etc.

Last night I drove my s-i-l's '17 Toyota Rav4 into town for her while she was visiting. Crap, no wonder the doggone thing has driver assists like lane departure warnings etc. The entire center stack is dominated by a color lcd screen with multiple menus and submenus to access any of the "automation/infotainment". Even though I didn't touch it, its lit presence was a distraction, let alone if I had tried to access something.

Now I get driver aids like the annoying lane departure system that tugs at the wheel if you move laterally without a turn signal on. Its a liability avoiding device that is NECESSARY because the operator is no longer likely to be do anything other than monitoring systems.

It made me think of Lion Air. Where the hell is the circuit breaker to shut off the lane departure crap when the system farts and puts me into nose down trim?

I'll bet there are some kids out on your lawn you could go yell at...

I kid. I hear you tho, today's cars with their emphasis on these features don't do much for me either. I still applaud the Japanese ability to continue to put out reliable, safe and relatively cheap cars. I'm counting on our otherwise uninspiring '15 RAV4 to handle teenage driving lessons for our current 12 and 14 year olds, and then give us another 5 years of mostly trouble-free use.

The fact that its so cheap means dad can maybe afford a used beemer coupe with a stick (before they are no more) to live in the garage even tho keeping an upscale German sports car for the long haul might be a bit of a fools errand by any measurable metric

[glepore]

Originally Posted by fmradio516

Just curious what you thought of the Rav4 besides the lights? Drive OK? Ive been thinking about the new 2019(they look super cool). Was gonna go hybrid but then I realized that the hybrids get worse highway mileage than straight gasoline cars.

Nice driving car, but underpowered (my frame of reference isn't fair though-my cars are v12's). Solid enough. Nice commanding driving position. If you can live with the automation and geegaws, nice enough appliance. Great headlights, but I guess they all are relatively now.

[dancinkozmo]

driver aids are just the beginning...industry is moving toward driverless cars whether we like it or not.

[glepore]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

driver aids are just the beginning...industry is moving toward driverless cars whether we like it or not.

Most of the recent tech writing on this is the industry admitting that its still 30 yrs in the future, primary because of the need for active com infrastructure and critical mass. Really capable driver aids though more readily. The story of the Cali cops having to slow in front of an autonomous Tesla last week (driver was dui and asleep) to stop it was amusing...

[martl]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

driver aids are just the beginning...industry is moving toward driverless cars whether we like it or not.

The current state of driver aids given, it will be 30 years plus from now until they can deal with objects like cyclists or pedestrians, if at all. What does an AI do if some schoolboys decide it is fun to hop in and out of the way of an autonomous vehicle, blaocking all traffic? The only cure would be massive legislation, basically restricting all non-car-traffic from any road... (hardcore jaywalking legislation), and which cyclist / normal human being would want this

So i think, *if* they ever come, they will be on long-distance roads only, requiring a way to reliably detect such a situation.

About the state of the car industry in general, yes, that is in a sorry state and most manufacturers give us useless gimmicks instead of reliable, economic, durable and affordable cars, but who else is to blame than us, the ciustomers... i recommend the Aussie guy from "AutoExpertTV" on youtube. He speaketh the truth, not only in technical matters.

[skouri1]

A few things:
I am interested in the 2019 Rav4 . Seems like a nice enough car. Mileage is good. AWD. probably spacious (i'm thinking you could fit a bike upright with front wheel off and still have some rear seats up, but would have to check).

At least the " infotainment". system is high up close to windshield in the rav. More generally, i am suspicious of the " tainment" in infotainment . I mean, navigation, music should split screen and that should be it I think. Other options available in park (changing driving modes perhaps before going offroad). They should also just make them hands free, save for the volume knob.

As a cyclist, I think those driving aids may be our savior, now that touch screen distractions are built in the car. I suppose that's better than someone looking at a tinier screen in their lap and texting, but only a little bit.

[glepore]

I dunno. If I choose not to look at my phone, the screen is dark. These things are like 10x the sq mm and are on all the freaking time. If you're prone to have your name called and "hey look at me!!!" then these things are like hand grenades for the general pop.

[skouri1]

True, when I'm just trying to play something via IPOD on my dad's car it's complicated enough to go through a huge list of artists/albums to find something.
I do it carefully and try to just play entire albums, but as i'm fiddling with the touch screen i'm always hyper aware of taking my eyes off the road. Not great. Hopefully everyone feels nervous or at least cautious about using the infotainment while driving, but people are so hooked on screens these days that I doubt it.

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by glepore

See, I drive cars from the mid 90's by choice-I like german luxury cars, and the mid 90's were a sweet spot - cars that were about quality and the driving experience, before they became about "features". As a result, I have normal old school din radios and individual buttons for climate control etc.

Cars have gotten safer, but I totally agree that the 90s/early 2000s were the sweet spot for non-distracted cars. Interiors had red/amber lighting, everything was controllable by feel, so the driver never had to take their eyes off the road.

Then comes Toyota who decides to light up the interior in blue LEDs, damaging your night vision, then later one Tesla throws a giant iPad in the middle of the console.

I have not needed to buy a car, but I probably will in the next 5 years, and dread trying to find a car without all these distractions.

[AngryScientist]

agree 100%.

i want my car to have a real key, tactile knobs to operate the radio volume and climate control features. i can even open and close the rear hatch myself and check tire pressure!

the worst is that i wind up renting cars when i'm on the road a lot. the first 20 minutes driving out of the rental depot is usually me fumbling around trying to figure out all the stuff that should be very basic, but is not anymore.

the last Jeep i rented audibly lowered the radio volume and announced that i was driving over the speed limit every three minutes!!!

frustrating!

[rnhood]

I have several friends with new cars, or newer cars/SUV's, and use the classic Garmin GPS units because the on-board GPS units are way too idiosyncratic and complicated. The antithesis of user friendly.

The electronic stuff on the newer cars is indeed frustrating. They will require dealership repairs when they have a problem, which will be suitably expensive.

[bikinchris]

Autonomous driving is a long way off. Teslas hitting guard rails, cars running over pedestrians etc. I would only want them to have drivers ready to override the autonomous driving if needed.
I do like my hands off call answering in my van.
The GPS in my Ford van is easy to use.