OT - thinking about a new vehicle - suggestions/opinions?

[jbreebs]

I'm starting to think about getting a new vehicle - currently I drive a 1997 Toyota camry with 245k miles on it. It's been a great car, and I have no complaints about it; it has treated me very well over the years. But, it's starting to accumulate some minor issues that will cost cumulatively more than the car is worth to get fixed up. Therefore, I think it's time to start looking for something new(er).

I've got a few approximate criteria I'd like to meet - newer than 2005, less than 175k miles, and less than $5000. I'm planning to pay cash and not add yet another payment to my life. Since the camry is still running, I'm not desperate and these seem like attainable criteria to me. I'm a younger guy looking for a quality affordable car that will last 5-10 years hopefully without any major issues.

Things to know - a good chunk of my driving is short trips (to work and back, around town for groceries etc). That said, I do a fair amount of longer trips - home to MN, camping/ski/road trips out west, etc. I do a fair amount of camping would like to have a bit more room for gear. Things I really value in a car are: fuel economy, reliability, ease of maintenance, and room for gear/extra people. I'd like to add a hitch for a tray-style bike rack, so ideally the new car should be able to take one of those easily. I also am unsure if AWD is worth it - it significantly decreases fuel economy, and I don't need it 90% of the time. That said, that other 10% of the time it would be really really nice to have. Opinions?

Existing pros/cons for vehicles I'm currently considering:

VW TDI wagon (passat/jetta) - great fuel mileage, room for all the stuff, diesel engine should last a long time. BUT I'm less familiar with diesel engines/turbos, repairs are more expensive, and I have concerns about short trip driving and cold weather. Also unsure if I need to do anything in relation to the emissions scandal era vehicles (2009-2013?)

Subaru Outback - AWD, room for all the stuff, easy to work on. But, poor mileage (due to AWD), and relatively more expensive up front than some others I'm considering

Volvo XC70 - AWD, room for all the stuff, nice interior. But, poor mileage (due to AWD), and more expensive repairs/parts

Toyota Prius - excellent fuel economy, quiet, relatively spacious. BUT, concerns about remaining battery life in vehicles that fit above criteria, as the batteries alone go for 3k plus, and less room for gear. Also lower ground clearance and likely worse performance on questionable roads

Toyota Camry/Honda Accord - similar to what I currently have, but newer/less miles. Good gas mileage, easy to work on, BUT holds less stuff and isn't particularly exciting (not that I necessarily need exciting)


Based on that info, are there vehicles I should consider that I'm not, or ones that I am considering that I shouldn't? If you were in my situation, what would you purchase?

[likebikes]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200638

honda fit.

[jtbadge]

I like my VW ('12 GTI) - tons of space, super fun to drive, etc., but maintenance is expensive, so someone coming from a Camry is in for a shock on that front.

FWIW, old Subarus got terrible mileage because their transmissions were terrible, not because of AWD. Current (CVT, newer than '09, I think) Subarus, even the big Forester and Outback, get over 30 highway. The current Outback is great.

All said, though - I agree with the Honda Fit recommendation, or a Mazda 3 hatch.

[hokoman]

my coworker has a honda element, it has over 300k miles, and he said the thing will not die. I started looking at them because I wanted a cheap car that will get beat up in NY. I need a fifth seat though. Ultimately decided to ship one of my cars from CA out since it sits idle there - 2012 Honda FIT with 18k miles. I looked to see what I could sell it for, and just decided it would be cheaper and easier for me to ship that car than buying a used car in NY. I will say, the drive sucks for long trips on the freeway in my opinion.

Sometimes it's not about spending more than a current car is worth, but how it will perform for you after you get the repairs done.

[NHAero]

I have a 2008 Fit which I've had for almost 9 years, bought with 35,000 miles on it in 2010. It's been a great car and when I moved to MV I put 4 bikes in it.

The one caution compared to the Camry is that it's not nearly as comfortable highway car.

Originally Posted by likebikes

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=200638

honda fit.

[gomango]

Another satisfied Fit owner.

A 2007.

Great city car. Easy to park, decent with gas and totally reliable.

Low maintenance costs as well.

[joosttx]

Check a Honda Crosstour too. I had one and it was a very nice car.

[zennmotion]

Another +1 for the Honda Fit. However, as one who used to live in snow country, light cars with small diameter wheels are sub-optimal in gnarly conditions when snow is piling up such as rural roads. I miss my '94 Camry, that thing wouldn't die until the upstate NY salted roads finally rusted out pretty much everything under the floorboards. Cargill salt is a big contributor to NYS legislators on both sides, which is why the road salt is so much worse than next door in New England or PA. effers...

[jbreebs]

looks like I should also be considering the Honda Fit. Those of you that have them - how do you like the interiors? is the hatchback/trunk portion reasonably sizeable with the back seats up? what sort of real world MPG do you get?

[biker72]

My daughter now has my 2013 Honda Fit but this is a solid reliable vehicle. ONLY downside is no all wheel drive. You can load a lot of everything in this Honda.
My daughter is getting better gas mileage than me but I got around 33 mpg overall. Made one long trip and averaged 35 mpg.

[scoobydrew]

I agree with Honda Fit as well. Will last you forever, holds a TON of stuff. Get a cheap set of snow tires/wheels for the wintery months.

[Hawker]

I'm a drummer so I've had lots of wagons and hatchbacks. All Asian of one type of another. All my Hondas and Toyotas have been bulletproof, Accords and Camrys. Both in wagons (when they made them) and standard four doors.

However, the car that has been wonderful to me for the last ten years has been a '08 Mazda 3 hatch. Fit's my drums easily or two bikes (carefully) and handles a notch above the Honda or the Toyota. I tried a Honda Fit but to me it felt a bit small, loud and didn't have much power when it came to any driving on Interstates. Even getting onto the Interstate seemed to be an effort. My .02.

Just keep changing the oil and it seems that almost anything Asian goes 200K+ these days.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by jbreebs

looks like I should also be considering the Honda Fit. Those of you that have them - how do you like the interiors? is the hatchback/trunk portion reasonably sizeable with the back seats up? what sort of real world MPG do you get?

The rear seats have good comfortable legroom for being a compact car. With the seats down, there's enough headroom to carry a bike or three turned upside down with both wheels removed (close, depending on your saddle height, I'm 5'10" YMMV). I've carried 8' planks from Home Depot (resting on the dashboard ) with the hatch closed. I've even carried our tandem inside the car, both wheels removed, front passenger seat fully reclined with my stoker seated in the back seat behind the driver. It's well designed for cargo, given that it's a basic compact car. Our actual mileage is around 33mpg hwy using the "eco" drive function that somewhat limits power for highway on-ramp accelerations and the like. Surprisingly, the city mileage seems very close, but hard to know since we live in the burbs, so very few trips are pure city driving. It will carry more than your Camry for sure. Although back in my starving grad student days, I bought a "small" iron woodstove at a barn sale, managed (with 2 guys helping) to load it into the back seat of my old Camry, fit fine until I got it home and it had shifted on the seat and I couldn't get it out. Drove around for a week with the damn thing in the back until I finally took it to a garage and had a back door removed to pry it out. Fun times...

[AngryScientist]

you probably know this already, but when you're in the market for a <$5k car, with a pile of miles on it already, you really have to buy the individual car, not focus only on a particular model. there is going to be a whole lot of junk out there in that price range that will be at the end of life and highly unlikely to go another 5 years before it's dead.

you really need to be relentless about checking for rust/rot and other telltale signs of a car that doesnt have much life left in it. understanding how the previous owner(s) took care of the car will be important. at 175k miles or so, most hondas are going to be deep into their second timing belt and ready for a new one, which is not a cheap job or a particularly easy DIY project.

i wouldnt touch any german car in that price range with that many miles without having a VERY good idea about the maintenance history. bear in mind TDIs are pretty sensitive to what motor oil they need, and it's expensive. using the wrong oil for 50k miles is going to result in sludge and varnish issues which will cost you eventually.

there is certainly a lot of love for them, and it's highly subjective, but i test drove a FIT a long time ago, a brand new one and absolutely hated it. loud, very cheap feeling interior and severely underpowered. i'd hate to drive it anywhere that has hills or passes to contend with.


SUVs are wildly popular right now, so that is propping their used prices up. for the money you are looking to spend, you will get a lot more car if you stick with a sedan, if i were in your shoes and the camry has worked well for you, i'd be looking for another one of them or an accord.

[loxx0050]

The age and price range cars you are shopping for stay away from naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine Subaru vehicles. Outback, Forrester, Impreza and Legacy. From I think it was 2005ish era and onto probably 2015 or even 2016 era models have oil consumption issues where the head gaskets tend to leak....all of them eventually and not even a matter of if it is when. Lots of complaints on that front and even cases of denied warranty for some owners. Despite Subaru eventually admitting design flaw issues.

The turbo 4 cylinder offerings weren't subject to this issue with more robust design (aka WRX, Forrester XT, Legacy XT and STi models. The 6 Cylinder engines are built like tanks and seem to last forever though with proper maintenance.

With your budget I'd stay away from Subaru 4 cylinder versions unless they already had the leaks repaaire. But be warned you'd probably have to do the same fix again in 5-7 years again or so from when it was fixed.


Just a PSA. My dad's 2007 Forrester experienced these oil leaks and I've seen 2015 Outbacks with the same issues not even beyond 15k miles on them. I've got a 6 Cylinder Subaru Outback and it's been rock solid. 5 years of ownership and 55k miles and only had to do general maintenance. Oil changes, tranny and diff fluid drain/fill, brake flush and filter changes. Only what your supposed to do with any vehicle.