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Old 12-07-2021, 08:09 AM
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Lewis Moon Lewis Moon is offline
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Seized BB drive side cup

Welp... I'm breaking down the Masi GC in order to update the components and the drive side fixed, square taper cup won't budge. I'm thinking it MAY be Loc Tite, given that the NDS cup was hard to remove, had no rust and basically turned like it had glue in the threads. I shot in some PB blaster, but am unsure how that might work with Loc Tite. The real rub is the narrow flats on the cup can't stand more than a couple wrench slips before they become unusable. I ordered the proper tool, but I want to stack the deck before I go at it again. Any tips?
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Last edited by Lewis Moon; 12-07-2021 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 12-07-2021, 08:33 AM
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rccardr rccardr is offline
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Use the correct wrench (a closed box end style is best).
Use a bolt and washers to keep the wrench from slipping off the cup.
PB Blaster to soak for a day or two, spray threads from inside as well.
A rubber mallet sometimes gets things moving- short, sharp shock.
Longer lever (e.g. old frame downtube over wrench handle).
Turn in correct direction.

Some folks swear by the 'put the flats in a vise and turn the frame to remove' method. which I have also used successfully.
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Old 12-07-2021, 08:40 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis Moon View Post
Welp... I'm breaking down the Masi GC in order to update the components and the drive side fixed, square taper cup won't budge. I'm thinking it MAY be Loc Tite, given that the NDS cup was hard to remove, had no rust and basically turned like it had glue in the threads. I shot in some PB blaster, but am unsure how that might work with Loc Tite. The real rub is the narrow flats on the cup can't stand more than a couple wrench slips before they become unusable. I ordered the proper tool, but I want to stack the deck before I go at it again. Any tips?
Gonna be that guy..Italian threading? So, lefty loosey?

Yup, proper tool, like this one..or a 'Stein tool', to hold a wrench 'on there'.
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Old 12-07-2021, 08:47 AM
gbcoupe gbcoupe is online now
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Some folks swear by the 'put the flats in a vise and turn the frame to remove' method. which I have also used successfully.[/QUOTE]

This has always worked for me.

Double/triple up any area that might get scraped with painters tape. I sometimes use leather sample swatches to protect for jobs like this.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2021, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Gonna be that guy..Italian threading? So, lefty loosey?

Yup, proper tool, like this one..or a 'Stein tool', to hold a wrench 'on there'.
Is that one of Jim's tools? I have stories about riding with Jim...
Also, too: I ALWAYS check thread direction prior to wrenching BBs or pedals... Especially if I have to use an Allen wrench from the back side.
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Last edited by Lewis Moon; 12-07-2021 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:29 AM
Spaghetti Legs Spaghetti Legs is offline
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I have always overcome using rccardr method above but the Pblaster usually isn’t needed. Campy fixed cup wrench is my weapon of choice. Masi should be Italian thread but double check for the 36x24 before applying the brute force.

I’m also going to start on a Masi GC rebuild soon. I’ll be replacing the Super Record crank with a compact so I probably jinxed myself on this.
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:33 AM
unterhausen unterhausen is offline
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I have a bike that never saw any bb maintenance since 1985 and DS cup was very stuck. Biggest bolt that would go through the axle hole and a couple of nuts in combination with a big wrench did the trick.
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Old 12-07-2021, 10:19 AM
tellyho tellyho is offline
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The Sheldon Brown setup has always worked for me (though I do have a Campy BB cup somewhere in my basement which is permanently affixed to the tool. Good news is that it's not in the frame...).

In addition, I use a 24" breaker bar. Put the frame on a rug, stand on the breaker bar. This has worked in cases where the vise has not.
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Old 12-07-2021, 10:20 AM
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I have no doubt I'll get the cup off; I would just rather not bugger a relatively pristine BB.
I don't know the bike's history but, everything indicates it hasn't been ridden much. Most of the wear and tear seems to be from long term storage in a dry environment. You know; some old, rich guy bought a trophy bike, rode it 300 miles then it got stored until the estate sale. It feels kinda icky to make it my daily driver, but Masis, for some reason, don't get much love, especially after the name was sold and lesser bikes produced under that banner. Even in the great shape it's in, I couldn't get much more than the price of a cheap set of wheels for the frame, so it gets updated parts and ridden.
...at least I'm not sawing off the derailleur hanger and making it a flat bar single speed...
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Last edited by Lewis Moon; 12-07-2021 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 12-07-2021, 11:02 AM
Doug Fattic Doug Fattic is offline
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What size is your frame? My frame building buddy Rich Gangl keeps bugging me to sell him my 54. It was the frame he started racing on. If he can't find one, he is going to make a replica. Of course his replica will be a lot nicer.

Besides the tools Old Potato showed, Campy made the ultimate quality shop tool just to take off their fixed cups. This tool is not to be confused with the standard flat tool that comes in a 3 piece set. The handle even has flats so it can be put into a bench vise so the entire frame can be used as leverage. Campy also made cheater extensions for not only that tool but their frame prepping tools as well.

Since I am a painter as well as builder, I have loved having it hanging on the wall for just those occasions like yours. I wonder if some shop or painter has one near you?
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  #11  
Old 12-07-2021, 11:18 AM
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Lewis Moon Lewis Moon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
What size is your frame? My frame building buddy Rich Gangl keeps bugging me to sell him my 54. It was the frame he started racing on. If he can't find one, he is going to make a replica. Of course his replica will be a lot nicer.

Besides the tools Old Potato showed, Campy made the ultimate quality shop tool just to take off their fixed cups. This tool is not to be confused with the standard flat tool that comes in a 3 piece set. The handle even has flats so it can be put into a bench vise so the entire frame can be used as leverage. Campy also made cheater extensions for not only that tool but their frame prepping tools as well.

Since I am a painter as well as builder, I have loved having it hanging on the wall for just those occasions like yours. I wonder if some shop or painter has one near you?
It's a 60 C-T, which also makes it a hard sell. Also, it's a Mondonico rather than a Confente.
The Masi GC was always a grail bike for me, but I have never really appreciated "looking over riding", so hanging non period parts on it and riding the 5#!+ out of it is going to happen. If I break it, as my wife says..."That's what makes an antique special".
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2021, 12:10 PM
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Forza20 Forza20 is offline
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if it is loctite or similar then you need heat to soften the stuff..

pouring boiling hot water over the area, a few times, and hitting the cup with a hammer (gently) or a hard piece of wood, should get you going

if you need more heat, try a large 100watt soldering iron, from the inside out, in multiple spots


and if you have a hammer drill or similar, that may also work

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Old 12-07-2021, 10:22 PM
dddd dddd is offline
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In cases where there might be even the slightest possibility of unexpected thread direction, the first thing that I do upon finding a stuck cup is to lightly scribe a continuous line crossing the cup flange and the frame itself. Sharpie would also work.

The logic here is that if the cup perhaps moves ever so slightly in the tightening direction, I will see it and then know to turn it the other way.

I've not heard of any English-threaded Masis, but anything is possible and a scribed line might indicate something.

My go-to for removing stuck cups is my very old Sugino fixed cup spanner, secured with bolt and huge washers and then walloped with my 4# hammer.

I was using the same tool normally the other day and sort of marveled at how many hammer blows have "mushroomed" the edge of the handle, the tool has had extensive and hard use over the years and still as good as new!
No joke, the hammer method seems mighty effective.
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Old 12-07-2021, 10:30 PM
jds108 jds108 is offline
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Aren't all Italian BB shells 70mm wide and BSC = 68mm wide? Wouldn't that be the easiest way to tell?

Or are there some bikes with the threading of one in a shell of the other's width?
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Old 12-08-2021, 07:23 AM
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oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis Moon View Post
Is that one of Jim's tools? I have stories about riding with Jim...
Also, too: I ALWAYS check thread direction prior to wrenching BBs or pedals... Especially if I have to use an Allen wrench from the back side.
My tool...I also have one made by Cycles.
Quote:
Aren't all Italian BB shells 70mm wide and BSC = 68mm wide? Wouldn't that be the easiest way to tell?

Or are there some bikes with the threading of one in a shell of the other's width?
It would be except I have seen BSC shells about 70mm and 'far superior Italian threaded' shells in 68mm..easiest way is to look for numbers on cup

1.37x24(BSC)
36x24(FSItalian)

There are some other more obscure ones(like French and Swiss) but...
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Last edited by oldpotatoe; 12-08-2021 at 07:28 AM.
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