Serotta re-launches CDA

[Elefantino]

Perhaps the appeal is that you can get a Serotta that will fit 32+ tires, because, apparently, that's the minimum acceptable width for recreational cyclists these days.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by 572cv

A certain number of us are still here because we were lucky enough to come across a Serotta BITD, and fell for the feel of great cycling again. I still have two. Then we came across this forum, once upon a time the Serotta Forum. If, after all the setbacks and difficulties and whatever- however characterized-, that Ben Serotta has had, he can still build good frames and sell them at a profit, that’s fine. I can’t remember hearing a bad word about the Pronto, I don’t think. I chose to go with a builder who got his start at Serotta, DK, who has been refining his elegant steel frame for a few decades. I’m a repeat customer, a very happy one. I’m also happy that there are a number of builders who started at Serotta. What a great legacy, what a terrific thing for US builders and for us riders. A glass of red for us all.
I know this forum can do better by criticizing technical issues and details than it does by complaining about price. How can you assess the value proposition effectively before the bike is even out there?

That's well put, Rob. And yet...there's something sad about these repeated efforts to reboot. I had a Ti Concours as my first kinda modern bike once I figured out that my issues on my Jackson were because it was way too big for me. That Concours was a fine bike, and got me started on the path of modern bikes. And I appreciate and acknowledge the significant contribution that Ben Serotta has made to our pasttime. I think Serotta went out of business because of the price of the product, not because of any failure of design or construction. The competition caught up and in many ways passed by. At the least, the choices for a top notch bike greatly increased. The opportunity to have a frame made by Serotta alumni (Kirk, Bedford, No. 22) or any of the other highly skilled folks working in this field (Brad Bingham and AR Cycles come to mind) decreases the chance that Ben Serotta will succeed making a go of it, when he is subcontracting construction and paint, especially as his name recognition is less every year as we Paceliners get older It escapes me why a person wanting a fine modern steel bike would pay more to Ben than they would to Dave Kirk.

[ntb1001]

[\QUOTE]”Complete Bicycles from $10,995; Framesets from $6,795."[/QUOTE]


Is this really a high price for what’s is regarded as a high end frame?
I’m genuinely asking, a Richard Sachs (if you can get in the que) now sits at $6,600.
Is a Sachs not worth it either?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fa63]

That is what it comes down to. For me, a new Serotta, which appears to be only designed by Ben and built by others, does not warrant that kind of price. Not to mention that all the baggage the Serotta name now carries.

Originally Posted by ntb1001

”Complete Bicycles from $10,995; Framesets from $6,795."
Is this really a high price for what’s is regarded as a high end frame?
I’m genuinely asking, a Richard Sachs (if you can get in the que) now sits at $6,600.
Is a Sachs not worth it either?

[572cv]

Originally Posted by NHAero

That's well put, Rob. And yet...there's something sad about these repeated efforts to reboot. I had a Ti Concours as my first kinda modern bike once I figured out that my issues on my Jackson were because it was way too big for me. That Concours was a fine bike, and got me started on the path of modern bikes. And I appreciate and acknowledge the significant contribution that Ben Serotta has made to our pasttime. I think Serotta went out of business because of the price of the product, not because of any failure of design or construction. The competition caught up and in many ways passed by. At the least, the choices for a top notch bike greatly increased. The opportunity to have a frame made by Serotta alumni (Kirk, Bedford, No. 22) or any of the other highly skilled folks working in this field (Brad Bingham and AR Cycles come to mind) decreases the chance that Ben Serotta will succeed making a go of it, when he is subcontracting construction and paint, especially as his name recognition is less every year as we Paceliners get older It escapes me why a person wanting a fine modern steel bike would pay more to Ben than they would to Dave Kirk.

Your points are well taken, Marc. It would be an interesting biz school case study though, as there are a lot of aspects to the crash of Serotta inc., e.g. what effect did the fairly lengthy global economic crash of 08 have? My observation is that Serotta was trying to expand its offerings even as the market was retreating.I’m familiar with the long terrm effects of that event on a few projects I worked on. But I don’t know whether that was ‘it’ or whether there were twenty other factors. I’d read that study.

The Kirk was such a lovely ride today. The afterglow suggests it would be very very hard indeed to do better in acier.

[GParkes]

OK, let me see if I can articulate my opinion on this without sounding like a buffoon:

Serotta CDA: $6800 (ish)
SRAM Force Groupset: $2000 (ish)
Saddle/Cockpit/Seat Post: $750 (ish)
Solid Wheelset: $1500 (ish)
Total: $11,050 (ish)

Of course, you could go SRAM Red and add $2000 and bump the price to $13,000. How much is an SL8? ($14K with DA) A C68? ($16K at R&A with DA)

I knew Ben casually in the 90's from a personal banking perspective. On several occasions he personally gave me and a friend guided tour of the facility. When at the Geyser road facility, he GAVE me two sets of decals for a frame I was refinishing. A very gracious man who quite frankly doesn't deserve to be chopped on. He was an innovator and brought new ideas to custom and semi-custom/production bicycle frame manufacturing. It could be argued he has done more for American framebuilders than any others.

If you don't want to pay the price, don't.

GP

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

Attention, dentists...

At that price, I think he moving upmarket to dermatologists.

[Tz779]

Originally Posted by gparkes

ok, let me see if i can articulate my opinion on this without sounding like a buffoon:

Serotta cda: $6800 (ish)
sram force groupset: $2000 (ish)
saddle/cockpit/seat post: $750 (ish)
solid wheelset: $1500 (ish)
total: $11,050 (ish)

of course, you could go sram red and add $2000 and bump the price to $13,000. How much is an sl8? ($14k with da) a c68? ($16k at r&a with da)

i knew ben casually in the 90's from a personal banking perspective. On several occasions he personally gave me and a friend guided tour of the facility. When at the geyser road facility, he gave me two sets of decals for a frame i was refinishing. A very gracious man who quite frankly doesn't deserve to be chopped on. He was an innovator and brought new ideas to custom and semi-custom/production bicycle frame manufacturing. It could be argued he has done more for american framebuilders than any others.

If you don't want to pay the price, don't.

Gp

+1.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by ntb1001

”Complete Bicycles from $10,995; Framesets from $6,795."
Is this really a high price for what’s is regarded as a high end frame?
I’m genuinely asking, a Richard Sachs (if you can get in the que) now sits at $6,600.
Is a Sachs not worth it either?

Everyone values things differently, clearly.
I would happily buy a Serotta frame from earlier decades because the name has some cool historic significance, but currently?- nope, his name has no value over any number of really talented and experienced builders.

I wouldnt pay $6600 for a Sachs simply because I dont want to pay that much for a frame, but if I had to buy one or the other, itd for sure be a Sachs. That guy still has a reputation and involvement that, to me, adds value to the act of attaching tubes. He has, and continues to, add to the US framebuilding ecosphere.
I am 42, and am confident my age plays a general role in how I value the Serotta name. I am old enough to know of his name from the 80s, too young to have been directly influenced by the brand back then, and also old enough to have seen how many times he has tried to make the brand relevant since the glory days.

[OtayBW]

See, e.g., https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=300471

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by fa63

That is what it comes down to. For me, a new Serotta, which appears to be only designed by Ben and built by others, does not warrant that kind of price. Not to mention that all the baggage the Serotta name now carries.

Yeah, I think the market he's going for is people born around 1970, it was formative years were spent lusting for a Coors light serotta. The kind of person who wants the bike they wanted when they were 15, but also wants to have modern standards and features.

For folks under the age of 40, the Serotta brand is a negative, if anything, so I would definitely not be interested in paying a premium above what it would cost to get a comparable frame with a different name on the down tube.

[Saxon]

Originally Posted by prototoast

.

For folks under the age of 40, the Serotta is a negative,

I wish Ben luck with his new endeavor, but I'm not sure the name is even a negative. Someone posted a nice 90's Serotta on the "High-end Classic Vintage Road Bikes" Facebook page and was chastised in the comments by folks that didn't have a clue as to what a Serotta was but was sure the bike was junk. One comment was "Just because a bike is old doesn't make it a classic or high end."

[brewsmith]

I'd buy a custom Kirk over this in a heartbeat and save a couple grand to boot.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . as to what "baggage" you mean. Because the original company was driven into the ground by a new buyer? Because Ben has managed to build and sell high quality custom bikes for most of 50 years? I can't think of many other folks in this industry who have done that. I would venture that much of the "baggage" is only in the minds of Paceline members. To the average younger "new money" cyclist the name may not have much of any rep, positive or negative.

BBD

Originally Posted by fa63

That is what it comes down to. For me, a new Serotta, which appears to be only designed by Ben and built by others, does not warrant that kind of price. Not to mention that all the baggage the Serotta name now carries.

[Coffee Rider]

Originally Posted by BumbleBeeDave

I would venture that much of the "baggage" is only in the minds of Paceline members. To the average younger "new money" cyclist the name may not have much of any rep, positive or negative.

BBD

Outside of what seems like a very small circle of folks, no one knows or cares about the business challenges Serotta has had over the years, and it seems like a good number of those folks participate in this forum due to its origins. In the real world, I'm pretty excited when someone actually recognizes the name.