Cat IVs with coaches

[Mikej]

I think it’s a good idea if you want. It’s easy to overestimate your ability vs your desire to get fast and ruin your riding pleasure because you over trained. Having an experienced eye to point that out is so valuable and could save your season-

[benb]

Also pack riding skill are not as hard to acquire as people seem to think, there's always an excess of group rides to go on but a lot of group rides are so bad they don't help.

And group rides are often/usually really bad training at rec/cat 5/cat 4 levels IMO. They are a great way to send your self to overtraining land cause there's no discipline.

My experience with group rides could be divided into 3 categories:

- Clubs made up with people who did not race - This would ALWAYS turn into a dumb race, probably with bad/dangerous road behavior as well. The only way this could be avoided was if someone minimum Cat 2/3 showed up and acted as a "road captain". People would be scared/intimidated about what would happen if the fast guy actually decided to drop them and they'd start to behave. But sometimes you'd have hotheads who thought they should try to take down said racer a few notches and they'd behave badly. Guys would always take ridiculously long pulls where they would go full out and go totally anaerobic and refuse to peel off so the pace would go super high and then slow down ridiculously by the time they'd peel off. Then the next guy would do the same thing. Lots of brake checking in tight quarters, guys standing up on a climb and going backwards like an anchor, you, freaking out mid corner due to 1 grain of sand that was never going to make you crash.

- Rides made up of a group of people who were all on the same team. These could be OK, but could still degrade into a ride with harder than desired/needed riding. These would be again better if there was a designated senior/faster team member who was providing guidance to stop people from pushing the pace too much. Behavior around cars/traffic/laws would be much much better on this kind of ride. Paceline behavior 100% better, short efficient pulls, safe paceline, etc..

- Rides made up of a mix of people who all race but were not all on the same team. Mostly good behavior & good riding skills but still probably going to degrade towards race pace.

[William]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Paceline: just be mediocre. And dance with a banana which is mediocre.

Paceline: A group of great people with a few curmudgeons who like to pile on the Paceline yet still hang around.







W.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

I have a lot of opinions about adults racing bicycles, but they're as irrelevant as a mid-pack cat4 with a coach.

I just ride my bike and enjoy it, and if I am not having fun on my bike, I put it away and do something else.

perspective

[berserk87]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Paceline: Where we argue that the latest aero/weightweenie equipment would just be offset by diet and a training plan, then we complain about those using outside coaching to create said training plan.

Dang! Post of the day? We will have to see what other posts come up because the day ain't over yet. Assuming that no one tops this, this one counts as a walk-off microphone dropper.

[jlwdm]

Coaches are used not just in sports but all phases of life. I am a Realtor who does not use a coach but it is very common in real estate these days. I probably should use a coach, but I am nearing the end of my career.

I started driving my car on the track about a year and one half ago with various HPDE groups. As a novice I always had an instructor in the car. In intermediate solo I feel like I have plateaued in many ways. So I think it is time for a coach.

As an owner of a track told me you can get a coach for $500 per day or $1,000 per day. With the $1,000 a day coach with data analysis you will probably receive enough information to keep you busy for 6 months. Although some people hire coaches on a regular basis and also work with them on simulators. I think getting better makes driving more fun.

Same thing in cycling. If you are just hiring a motivator you need to know that going in. If you want a great coach do your research and pay what is necessary. It is your responsibility to make the right decision.

Jeff

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Coaches are used for just about every other sport, and at all levels. This is considered the norm; what should be different about cycling?
A 16 on the high school basketball has a coach.
A 12 year old on the local little league team has a coach.
Heck, even the 5 year old on the T-ball team has a coach.
You might claim that these sports have coaches because they are team sports. But individual sports like swimming, tennis, skiing, golf, etc. also normally have coaches (at all levels).
It seems a little elitist to think that lower level competitors don't deserve to have coaches. If anything, they need them more.

QFT
Thank you Mark.

[benb]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

Coaches are used not just in sports but all phases of life. I am a Realtor who does not use a coach but it is very common in real estate these days. I probably should use a coach, but I am nearing the end of my career.

I started driving my car on the track about a year and one half ago with various HPDE groups. As a novice I always had an instructor in the car. In intermediate solo I feel like I have plateaued in many ways. So I think it is time for a coach.

As an owner of a track told me you can get a coach for $500 per day or $1,000 per day. With the $1,000 a day coach with data analysis you will probably receive enough information to keep you busy for 6 months. Although some people hire coaches on a regular basis and also work with them on simulators. I think getting better makes driving more fun.

Same thing in cycling. If you are just hiring a motivator you need to know that going in. If you want a great coach do your research and pay what is necessary. It is your responsibility to make the right decision.

Jeff

I hadn't thought about it this way, but it makes sense in lots of other areas. I like to play guitar, I spend a lot on lessons, way more than cycling coaching at any level I would have considered. So I essentially have a guitar coach. The lessons are extremely effective. You don't see it on a day to day basis but when think back in 6 month increments the differences seem huge.

I feel like with cycling coaching you notice the difference in similar time periods... 3-6 months following a really well thought out plan with a coaches input makes a very big difference. When I've signed up for coaching it was for a 3-4 month time period to get ready for something big.

Guitar could be thought of as the same thing.. middle aged guy, why am I taking lessons, just like why bother with a coach for cycling? Well it's a lot more enjoyable to be better at something than you were. Maybe not so much with cycling cause being fast is lots of hard work and suffering whether you have a coach or not. Not true at all with music cause being good is always better than being bad and it's not like it's more physically taxing to play better.

I have certainly had the same experience with motorsports back when I was riding motorcycles. It does not take a whole lot of time with an instructor at the race track to make big strides. I took an SCCA car class at one point too and again it was extremely worthwhile time.

[Michael Maddox]

Originally Posted by steelbikerider

I'm one of those cat3/4/5 coaches.

Lots of new riders are clueless when it comes to proper training. Despite having all the gadgets and gear, they don't take/have the the time to study Friel or Allen and Coggan so they pay me to do it. It can take 2-3 years to truly understand how to train and how your body reacts to training. Most new guys just go out and ride as hard as they can for 1-3 hours and there aren't many people around here who can tell them otherwise. They also don't know how to ride easy or take recovery and rest weeks.

Since I have been racing and riding for over 40 years, I can look at their work schedules, training schedules, family obligations and race priorities and work out a schedule to optimize their training to match their priorities. I don't cost much more than an "A" race weekend.

As a USAC Coach, I concur.

My father used to say, "If you've only seen a CALF, you don't know how big a COW gets." My personal experience is that most beginners have a poor understanding of what "hard work" really is. They tend to overestimate their abilities at first, as they've been the fastest riders in their little group ride. Their training--or lack it--is commensurate with this lack of understanding. This changes to an UNDERESTIMATION of themselves when they've faced the reality, "There's ALWAYS a faster rider." Now, the novice rider is unsure how they will EVER get to be so fast, and they are overwhelmed with frustration.

My job is to expose the athlete to a realistic plan to help them improve, while balancing the psychological issues they face while improving. It's accountability, but it's MOSTLY encouragement...picking the small improvements and focusing on the gains.

Sure, there are riders who can do it themselves, but it's soooo much better with someone on the sidelines for you. And that's why I have my OWN coach.

[Drmojo]

I am surprised no one mentioned this.

me I guess I use Van Morrison as my life
coach

NO guru
NO method
NO teacher
Just you and me in nature...

[Rada]

I thought that was Rousseau?

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

I am surprised no one mentioned this.

me I guess I use Van Morrison as my life
coach

NO guru
NO method
NO teacher
Just you and me in nature...

So which is it?

[GeorgiaOcean]

Lack of coaching is one of the biggest bummers about getting into a sport as an adult. Kids get instruction, guidance and reinforcement all through their school years, but once those days are gone, you're largely on your own. Having such a broad array of coaching options for people of all skill levels is a great aspect of cycling - especially for riders who think getting faster is part of the fun.

Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

[Hindmost]

In the early days of my racing career every travel weekend was category 4's with couches.

[pasadena]

Always keep learning.
Always keep an open mind.

Cyclists can benefit greatly from coaching. It is arguable that the ends of the spectrum - juniors/new cyclists and the older a cyclist is, the more coaching and training plans are beneficial because of time constraints and lack of fundamentals for newbies.
Racing can be a solo venture or one with many supporters.

That's life man, there's no wrong way to get there. (I'll leave the doping out of this particular discussion).

If you are goal focused with cycling, a coach and/or training plan is smart- just as with any other goal.

Mentorship, coaching, planning... those are life lessons and skills.