In the market for a Smart Trainer

[Broccoli Cog]

Thanks all. You've confirmed what I was thinking. Direct drive it is. Currently shopping around for a good price on either Wahoo, Elite or Tacx.

[davidb]

From my own experiences and what we sell. I have a Cyclops hammer it is five years old and still going. Does need to have the updates done from my phone occasionally. This keeps it and Zwift playing along well. I use a Cyclops Nfinity rocker board. This was well worth the money. Makes longer sessions much more comfortable. I sell a lot Kickr trainers, they do not break. Using both back to back a watt is a watt. They both feel the same and work in "ERG" mode the same. Tacx equals Garmin so I'm a little suspect now. Wheel is the way to go fits just about everything and can probably be changed to fit about everything that might come out. By a good fan or two plus some towels.

[Quadzilla_Jr]

Originally Posted by trener1

Disclaimer, I haven't used the riser.
But... based on what I have read, it's likely somewhere in the between gimmick and great. Like does it really simulate outdoor climbs? likely not, however if it adds fun and diversity into your riding and helps you stay on the trainer longer then it's great.
Personally if I was going to buy something else it would likely be a rocker plate before the riser.

I second everything in this post.

Definitely go wheel-off. If you are going to do hard workouts, plan on investing in a fan (or two) as cooling becomes very important.

I train indoors 3-4 days per week on a Neo 2 and love it. I’m looking at a Neo or Kickr bike next, to keep from wearing out chains and cassettes so often.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Quadzilla_Jr

I train indoors 3-4 days per week on a Neo 2 and love it.

From time to time I consider a Neo 2T. I tend to balk at buying a subscription to <whatever> software, and the probability that I won't use it enough to justify the cost.

I hear that the Tacx software/rides are good and realistic, however. Not cartoon characters. TrainerRoad also gets good reviews with Tacx users (I think). What software do you use with it?

[Quadzilla_Jr]

Originally Posted by reuben

From time to time I consider a Neo 2T. I tend to balk at buying a subscription to <whatever> software, and the probability that I won't use it enough to justify the cost.

I hear that the Tacx software/rides are good and realistic, however. Not cartoon characters. TrainerRoad also gets good reviews with Tacx users (I think). What software do you use with it?

I use TrainerRoad. I’ve never even opened the Tacx training app; just the Tacx utility to do updates every once in a while.

The ride feel is amazing; I’ve played with the different road simulation settings and they would definitely enhance the Zwift experience, but I’ve never tried it.

Two things that sold me on the Neo over the Wahoo offerings—

The Neo 2 can be used without being plugged in, so I can take it and warm up before races

The Neo 2 seemed to have a bit more “give” to it, as in you can lean the bike a bit more and theoretically should be more comfortable. I’ve not ridden the Wahoo so I can’t confirm.

[trener1]

If you really don't want to pay a monthly subscription you can even use your Garmin or Wahoo to control your trainer.
But to me the $15 per month is very well worth it, in fact in a way I think buying one of these direct drive trainers and not using one of the apps out there (Be it Zwift, Rouvy, Trainer Road, RGT) is kind of like buying a sports car and only using it to go to the supermarket.
These apps really bring the trainers to life and are what makes them shine.
Like the other poster wrote I also use my trainer (with Zwift) even in the summer for various reasons, sometimes my wife might be working and I have to be home with the kids, sometimes I might only have an hour to ride so I can bang out and great set of intervals without having the time to ride to a quiet road, sometimes I might just feel like jumping into a group ride at whatever time it is, there is almost always a good group ride to jump into since you can find rides almost 24/7.

In theory you can you can do programed intervals in erg mode just from your garmin without any apps... so there is that, if you are dead set on not signing up for a app.

If I was paying full retail I'd likely get a Neo but I happened to get my Kickr on a black Friday sale (back when those thing still existed) so it was too good to turn down.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by trener1

If you really don't want to pay a monthly subscription you can even use your Garmin or Wahoo to control your trainer.

Hahaha!! I have no such thing. I have the 2020 version of the 1980s (yeah, I'm gettin' old) Avocet 2 button computer - speed, distance, average speed, odometer... and that's about it. It's a Cateye Strada Slim. It's an upgrade over my '80s Avocet in that it's wireless, but that's about it.

So that's another limitation, and I just don't feel a need - or a desire - for Strava, GPS, Garmin, etc. I'm an engineer who tends to overanalyze things at times (which is good in my job, but not outside of it), and I fear that something like Strava would just lead to more obsession/stress, which is the last damn thing I need. Good suggestion, though, so thanks.

Originally Posted by trener1

But to me the $15 per month is very well worth it, in fact in a way I think buying one of these direct drive trainers and not using one of the apps out there (Be it Zwift, Rouvy, Trainer Road, RGT) is kind of like buying a sports car and only using it to go to the supermarket.
These apps really bring the trainers to life and are what makes them shine.

You obviously know a lot more than I do about this, but from what little I know, I agree.

Originally Posted by trener1

Like the other poster wrote I also use my trainer (with Zwift) even in the summer for various reasons, sometimes my wife might be working and I have to be home with the kids, sometimes I might only have an hour to ride so I can bang out and great set of intervals without having the time to ride to a quiet road, sometimes I might just feel like jumping into a group ride at whatever time it is, there is almost always a good group ride to jump into since you can find rides almost 24/7.

No wife, no kids, no pets. I'm free. Well, except for that annoying job thing. And it's getting to be that time of year when it's dark when I leave the house and dark when I come home, and I'm not inclined to ride in the dark, no matter the lights and reflective clothing. Hence my interest in these indoor machines/apps/etc.

If I remember correctly, the Tacx software comes with high quality videos of real rides, which is appealing to me. I can't handle cartoon characters. I don't have any desire to participate in a Mario Brothers ride.

Originally Posted by trener1

In theory you can you can do programed intervals in erg mode just from your garmin without any apps... so there is that, if you are dead set on not signing up for a app.

From what little I know, all of these training apps have some sort of "erg mode", as you mentioned, which is somewhat appealing. Emphasis on "somewhat". I can zone out on a treadmill at the (pre-covid) gym, but intervals require some concentration. Not sure that I'm up for that, but there's only one way to find out. Zoning out might be better on rollers. Or worse. I dunno.

Another issue (for me) is that I'd need some sort of TV or laptop to display the app, since I don't have a Garmin or the like. In some ways this indicates that if I want to take the plunge into training software I should - ahem - "upgrade" to something like a Garmin or Wahoo. Buying a modern cycling computer is a lot less expensive than buying a TV - buying a TV seems kinda dumb from a monetary standpoint. But no one's ever said I was smart. Well, except my mom.

I probably sound like I've made up my mind to buy a Neo 2T and use the Tacx software, but that's not really the case. But if the 2T came with the software at a fixed price rather than a subscription, I'd be sorely tempted. I like paying for things and owning them. I don't like monthly or annual fees, although I've made exceptions for subscriptions to cycling channels such as Flobikes and GCN.

I find these training apps (and power meters) intriguing, but not yet enough to pull the trigger. Maybe I'm just too old for this stuff.

Thanks for the detailed reply. It was helpful.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Quadzilla_Jr

I use TrainerRoad. I’ve never even opened the Tacx training app; just the Tacx utility to do updates every once in a while.

The ride feel is amazing; I’ve played with the different road simulation settings and they would definitely enhance the Zwift experience, but I’ve never tried it.

How does TR do this? Isn't it dependent on the hardware (trainer)? The software (TR) can issue all of the command it wants, but if the hardware (physical trainer) can't receive, interpret, or implement those commands, well, then they're not going to happen. Does TR require certain hardware for some features?

I see on TR's site that they require/suggest certain trainers to transmit or receive data, but nothing about making the trainer simulate a downhill, up hill, pavement, gravel, dirt, mud, etc. The most realistic thing I see is "Controls Resistance". Other than that it's just transmit power data over ANT+ or BLE.

[Onno]

Had the Wahoo Kickr Snap, and then went to the Kickr direct drive, and I agree that it's worth the extra money. Much smoother and quieter, and you don't blow out rear tires. I also like that it self-calibrates. It's also impressively small, folding up so that it's pretty easy to get out of the way when I need to.

[Quadzilla_Jr]

Originally Posted by reuben

How does TR do this? Isn't it dependent on the hardware (trainer)? The software (TR) can issue all of the command it wants, but if the hardware (physical trainer) can't receive, interpret, or implement those commands, well, then they're not going to happen. Does TR require certain hardware for some features?

I see on TR's site that they require/suggest certain trainers to transmit or receive data, but nothing about making the trainer simulate a downhill, up hill, pavement, gravel, dirt, mud, etc. The most realistic thing I see is "Controls Resistance". Other than that it's just transmit power data over ANT+ or BLE.

I use a Neo 2T and my iPhone, that’s it. iPhone app controls the trainer completely—resistance, feel, etc.

Edit: I do record my rides with my Garmin watch, because the heart rate data pays for my healthcare through my employer. But the Garmin is not talking to the Neo or TrainerRoad.

[Quadzilla_Jr]

Another note—

ERG mode is great. On easier rides, I turn off my phone screen completely and watch races on YouTube or whatever. I just let the app/trainer adjust resistance in the background and go with the flow, maintaining my own chosen cadence. It’s nice for longer intervals because I can lose track of time and they go by quicker than if I were staring at the counter.

[redir]

Ah it's that time of year again

For me... the only thing that I can tolerate is rollers and TruTrainer makes a 'smart' roller that works with Zwift.

[rccardr]

Neo 2T, TACX training software with Euro riding videos, old iPhone, flat screen tv, two fans.
Boom!
After three months of that, best riding shape I’ve ejoyed in a decade.

[caducosity]

Bought a Kickr a few months ago (local store had them; the TacX seems just as nice) and liked it so much that I sprung for a cheap TV, and I couldn't be happier with the setup. I use the Fulgaz app, which is real video, and unlike Rouvy, is filmed from a bike, which means I can hear the rider changing gears and laboring up hills when I'm laboring up hills, which I love. But all these apps have free trials, and I'd say sign up for a bunch (maybe not all at once; as you might not have time to try them all in two weeks) and see what you like. I thought I'd love Zwift, but wound up much preferring Fulgaz.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by rccardr

Neo 2T, TACX training software with Euro riding videos, old iPhone, flat screen tv, two fans.
Boom!
After three months of that, best riding shape I’ve ejoyed in a decade.

You're not helping! Well, actually, you are. $10/month isn't bad, and I'd go monthly since I'd only ride it during the dark winter months. Now, about that TV... If I could stream the likes of the Tour of Flanders, UCI CX, etc. through/GCN/Flobikes/whatever while riding, that'd be even better than the videos.

I've noticed quite a few videos of past races on the free YouTube app on my TV. So add another Roku and I'd be set. Neo 2T + cheap TV + Roku/Tacx app.

I mean, as long as I'm sitting down watching a race, I might as well do it on a bike.

Too many options are confusing my addled brain. I need to fish or cut bait.