Zwift Setup for the winter

[PepeM]

I, for one, really dislike ERG mode. To me, being able to force yourself to hold the prescribed effort even if you're tiring or if the terrain changes slightly is as important as holding the effort itself. In a race my bike won't automatically hold an output for me, either I can convince myself to do it or not. I just don't find ERG very useful, plus from what I've seen, it 'cheats' a little bit on the power front (the power profiles look way too perfect in ERG mode.)

[mistermo]

I remain sticker shocked from the price of a Wahoo Kickr. The Wahoo Snap is much less expensive. Is it nearly as good? Is there a reliable alternative to a Kicker that works with Zwift, that doesn't break the bank?

[MagicHour]

I'm pretty happy with my Kinetic Road Machine + Stages power meter for Zwifting.
Pros:

• Accuracy - works well, feel like Im keeping it honest in group rides and races
• Same power reading IRL as on Zwift (=equal amount of suck! )
• Portable and quick to set up - Important b/c I'm in a small apartment and can't keep my trainer setup full time
• Calibration takes about 10secs, no annoying spindowns or calibrations after :10 minutes etc
• Bombproof trainer/Stages for the most part has been reliable. Less componentry/electronics to fail vs a smart trainer.

Cons

• No Smart course simulation. Still curious to try and see if I like it, especially for climbing simulation.
• Thus, with a PM shifting is opposite to IRL, i.e.,big ring/small cogs when climbing to simulate realistic climbing RPMs.
• No ERG mode; but again have had no issues doing interval workouts and holding power with my PM.

If my Kinetic ever fails (don't see this happening too soon) probably would give a smart unit a shot.

[PepeM]

Originally Posted by mistermo

Is there a reliable alternative to a Kicker that works with Zwift, that doesn't break the bank?

Tacx Flux or Elite Diretto are the cheapest 'direct drive' smart trainers I think.

[Spaghetti Legs]

I bought my Kickr Snap from REI using a 20% coupon so pretty good price. I've been really happy with it. It replicates up to something like a 10% grade. I'm still not a high mileage indoor rider as the weather past couple of winters here in Virginia has been pretty nice, but I enjoy indoors now when I do it and I ride a lot harder than the old days when I would just stare at a TV show while plodding away on the dumb trainer.

A power meter would of course be useful for year round riding but what would happen with that on Zwift is if you get on a big climb, you have to mash a huge gear, otherwise you just spin like a hamster and creep up the climb while people zoom by you.

[93KgBike]

I was hesitant to buy a smart trainer, but the Tacx Neo is essentially a home Velotron that costs less than every race bike I have owned since the late 80's. I have zero regrets with my budget busting decision. Zwift is amazing on it.

[bitpuddle]

For just riding around in Zwift, anything compatible is fine. If you look for used Kurt Kinetic trainers, you might find a deal, and it’s power curve is plenty stable enough for Zwift.

If you want to do Zwift races/rides, you might find some cranky people if you don’t have more accurate power (via a meter or smart trainer). If you want to take advantage of structured workouts in Zwift or TrainerRoad, a power meter (or smart trainer) is helpful.

Entry-level smart trainers (KICKR SNAP, CycleOps Magnus, Elite Rampa,Tacx Vortex Smart) are all in the same price range and will make both Zwift and Trainer Road easier to use.

PowerMeters are pretty reasonable now, too. Pioneer will retrofit one on an ultegra / Dura ace crank starting at $500, stages is in that range, 4iii is $400, etc. A power meter + a fluid trainer are a fine combination for Zwift.

Don’t forget that you’ll need something to run Zwift on (it is a video game, so requires a bit of graphics power) as well as the appropriate dongle to get Ant+ devices connected to the computer/iPad.

I use a Neo and it is a really nice trainer, but I don’t think it is 5x better than the Kinetic trainer I used previously.

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by cmbicycles

Looking ahead to winter, ugh, and thinking about Zwift as an option to keep from total boredom riding the trainer.
Right now I don't have a power meter, nor a smart trainer, and looking at Zwift it should still work but not as optimally based on their faq. I'm considering getting something like a power tap wheel and using it with my Garmin in season... perhaps, I still prefer a simple speedometer. Other option on the table would be to sell my dumtrainer and get a simple smart trainer to replace it.
Anything else I should consider? Pro/cons of one to the other for those who use zwift or similar.

I've used Zwift pretty much exclusively since end of 2014, meaning I've trained outside maybe 15 times in the last almost-3 years (other than races).

Zwift, with a consistent trainer, and consistent set up (tire pressure, roller pressure, tire "skid" test), is pretty consistent. On a CycleOps, once the trainer is warmed up, the numbers were consistent. With KK Road Machine the numbers are more consistent throughout the temp range, it doesn't increase resistance as much as it heats up.

Tire "skid" test is me holding the wheel/tire and rotating the wheel forcefully. If the tire skids then I tighten the roller. I basically max out tension (CycleOps frame, KK knob or CycleOps QR lever). I'm pretty sure my roller tension is higher than recommended but it prevents slipping at 1000-1100w. On the other hand at lower power numbers I have extra resistance based on the Zwift power algorithm where Zwift calculates power based on wheel speed and acceleration. For KK it's about 35w penalty at 150w, so I have to go about 185w to "show" 150w on Zwift. For Cycleops Fluid2 it's about 55w penalty at 150w, meaning I have to put down 205w to show 150w on Zwift. However, with CycleOps, if I don't exceed 90-100w, then it doesn't heat up and it seems to be closer to accurate.

CycleOps - I once soft pedaled at 50-80w to a sprint zone. Since Zwift uses wheel speed and acceleration to calculate power, my speed and Zwift power curves should be very close in a sprint. With the added benefit of having a working SRM, I could see what power I actually sustained in the sprint. When I started the sprint the SRM and Zwift power readings were almost the same. However you could see the power curves deviate even in a short, 25 second sprint as the CycleOps quickly heated up. The Zwift calculated power quickly dropped off, I think losing about 150w or so by the end of the sprint. The SRM power curve was closely matched to wheel speed, indicating that I had pretty consistent power. But the Zwift curve dropped pretty quickly relative to SRM power and wheel speed.

I haven't tried the same test with the KK but the KK unit doesn't change as much as it heats up.

[trener1]

Originally Posted by mistermo

I remain sticker shocked from the price of a Wahoo Kickr. The Wahoo Snap is much less expensive. Is it nearly as good? Is there a reliable alternative to a Kicker that works with Zwift, that doesn't break the bank?

The Cycleops Magnus is a really well priced smart trainer, really worth a look for a entry level smart trainer.

[Bostic]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

It really is amazing how the Zwift people have managed to pull this off. I did the Volcano climb today...it's about 6 miles, 2000' of climbing. At the end it kicks up to 14%. I was chugging along to that point and a guy who was behind me most of the way tries to sprint by me 400 yards out to the snag the finish. No way Jose. I was already pouring sweat but just had to bury myself to try to shut that down :-) Serioisly felt like I was going to cough up a lung. Im just not that competitive in my basement so kudos to Zwift for creating an environment that encourages that in a friendly way. Anyway, I don't think you can replicate that experience with a traditional trainer/virtual power.

I am using a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine 2 ‘dumb trainer’ with Zwift by means of a Garmin Ant+ USB dongle plugged into a long USB extension cable to my laptop that is connected to an external monitor.

The speed is somewhat close. When the tire is pumped up, the fly wheel is in enough contact, my speed and HR on Zwift represents what I would be doing in real life outdoors on a bike when suffering up a 14% grade. What is not realistic is the gear and cadence. I never ever leave the 52t outer chain ring. There is no way I am going to be pushing a 52x13 up a mountain like I am on Zwift.

Zwift also allows you to do things on the trainer that you can’t on a real bike. Close your eyes, throw bike around when absolutely giving your all to not that that sucker behind you pass before the summit (or sprint). I always save my speed boost or feather weight as well for that last kick up. My wife will make fun of me while I’m cursing loudly about various Zwifters that are a few seconds behind.

[commonguy001]

Originally Posted by mistermo

I remain sticker shocked from the price of a Wahoo Kickr. The Wahoo Snap is much less expensive. Is it nearly as good? Is there a reliable alternative to a Kicker that works with Zwift, that doesn't break the bank?

As already mentioned the Elite Direto is a 899 dollar direct drive trainer and is really nice. We picked one up for my wife to train on this winter after a couple years on a Computrainer.
Being fairly thrifty, I spent a good amount of time watching the Nashbar sales and got it 25% off and also used Active Junky to get an extra 5% back. Shipped it was well under 700 dollars up front and I have cash coming back on it too.

I got my Tacx Neo from Nashbar on a similar sale (but with 10% back from Active Junky) although I haven't seen it offered since. Coming off a Snap, it's a pretty nice rig and I got pretty good scratch for my Snap on Craigslist.

So if you keep looking there is a chance you'll be able to score a Direto for 25% off.

[flydhest]

I have never used a smart trainer and am interested. Just moved to an apartment from living in a row house with a basement. Can someone speak to the noise from a Kickr? Other great direct drive trainers?

[yashcha]

I am in the same boat here, living in Beijing the number of days of riding outside is severely limited and Zwift(which I started to use seriously starting 2016) has been one of the best things to happen for my training.

I have noticed that the avatars move a lot quicker since the last update, it took me some time to get used to last night.

Originally Posted by carpediemracing

I've used Zwift pretty much exclusively since end of 2014, meaning I've trained outside maybe 15 times in the last almost-3 years (other than races).

Zwift, with a consistent trainer, and consistent set up (tire pressure, roller pressure, tire "skid" test), is pretty consistent. On a CycleOps, once the trainer is warmed up, the numbers were consistent. With KK Road Machine the numbers are more consistent throughout the temp range, it doesn't increase resistance as much as it heats up.

Tire "skid" test is me holding the wheel/tire and rotating the wheel forcefully. If the tire skids then I tighten the roller. I basically max out tension (CycleOps frame, KK knob or CycleOps QR lever). I'm pretty sure my roller tension is higher than recommended but it prevents slipping at 1000-1100w. On the other hand at lower power numbers I have extra resistance based on the Zwift power algorithm where Zwift calculates power based on wheel speed and acceleration. For KK it's about 35w penalty at 150w, so I have to go about 185w to "show" 150w on Zwift. For Cycleops Fluid2 it's about 55w penalty at 150w, meaning I have to put down 205w to show 150w on Zwift. However, with CycleOps, if I don't exceed 90-100w, then it doesn't heat up and it seems to be closer to accurate.

CycleOps - I once soft pedaled at 50-80w to a sprint zone. Since Zwift uses wheel speed and acceleration to calculate power, my speed and Zwift power curves should be very close in a sprint. With the added benefit of having a working SRM, I could see what power I actually sustained in the sprint. When I started the sprint the SRM and Zwift power readings were almost the same. However you could see the power curves deviate even in a short, 25 second sprint as the CycleOps quickly heated up. The Zwift calculated power quickly dropped off, I think losing about 150w or so by the end of the sprint. The SRM power curve was closely matched to wheel speed, indicating that I had pretty consistent power. But the Zwift curve dropped pretty quickly relative to SRM power and wheel speed.

I haven't tried the same test with the KK but the KK unit doesn't change as much as it heats up.

[Bostic]

Price increase to $14.99 effective today but loyal Zwifters maintain existing price for one year. Still worth it to me for days and nights where I'm not able to get out on the bike proper.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by Bostic

Price increase to $14.99 effective today but loyal Zwifters maintain existing price for one year. Still worth it to me for days and nights where I'm not able to get out on the bike proper.

And, as I found out, if you EVER set up a zwift account you qualify to be grandfathered in at $10. I haven't used it since 2015, but I can join until 12/15/17.