Brooks Swallow (B15) - do they still sag quickly?

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

These guys might have them.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m18b0s20...addles-Leather

They seem to have an own-branded version of the same thing (at least visually and by description). Cheap too, even for the Ti ones. Could be worth a shot, thanks.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie

Same saddle, different rails - the Aspin has steel rails whilst the Galibier has Ti.

No, the Aspin is the medium width steel rail, the Aravis is the medium with Ti rail.

The Galibier is a significantly narrower saddle; it's steel rail version is the Soulor.

I have both Aspins and an Aravis. The Galibier is way too narrow for me, as was the Swallow.

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by palincss

No, the Aspin is the medium width steel rail, the Aravis is the medium with Ti rail.

The Galibier is a significantly narrower saddle; it's steel rail version is the Soulor.

I know, I corrected myself on the previous page.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by palincss

Which Berthoud? The Aspin? How about the narrow one, the Galibier?

Yes - I have the Aspin (in that exact color - matching leather tape as well). I can't recommend it enough. I used to think that my $$$ bibs (Assos, Castelli, PI, etc.) were the problem. Nope. Now ride with those and cheaper bibs and NEVER even notice or think about the saddle or my butt.
Yes it weighs more and might not look like the saddle the pros use, but it is a game changer for me.

[Andreas]

Brooks Swallow.
Great saddle. Normal rails as opposed to most leather brooks and all Berthouds. But the leather sags - more so than b17/professional/swift. I would not buy another one.

Berthoud Galibier.
Got almost everything right on this saddle but the rails are way too short. Be prepared to search for a way set back post. I would not buy another one due to the rails issue.

Ideale 90.
Best Leather. Like Merckx I am waiting for the 92.

[merckx]

In the 70's I was on an Ideale 80. Still have it though it looks like a canoe now.

In the 80's I was on a Turbo. The one with Bernie's mug on the box.

In the 90's I was on either a Rolls, or a Regal. I preferred the Regal, and that was where I settled for many years.

As I aged, I desired more saddle setback to get some weight off the bars. This also required a slightly wider saddle. Brooks had just released the C17, and I gave it a go. It had a little more support, and also provided some additional damping. It was a great dirt road saddle.

On a whim, I bought a B17 that was hanging on a shop wall for $50.00. It had remained unsold for years, and the shop owner was happy to punt it in my direction. I swallowed hard and fastened it to my bike. I took a few steps back, cocked my head, and then decided that I would keep it there for a while and then reevaluate. I fussed with the angle and height over several rides. Figuring out the setback was straight forward. I just hammered it back with the heel of my hand until it stopped. The conclusion is that it is pretty damn comfortable. I've done several 10 hour rides and never had an ass hair out of place. It is that good for me.

As mentioned, i would like to see Ideale release the Diagonal 92 with the exceptional quality leather that they are now using.. It is a B17 style saddle and would suite me well. It would also bookend my saddle timeline perfectly.

[Veer96]

Oh I wish I had the wright saddle on my 70s raleigh grand prix. It was a perfect imprint.

[dbh]

My experience with the quality of Brooks leather saddles has varied. I had a ti-railed Swift that sagged no matter how much babying and adjustment I gave it. Felt like a hammock. I've gone through a few heavy as rocks B17N on different builds, and never had an issue with sagging, but the weight was too much. I've ended up quite happy with a Berthoud Aspin. Quality is top notch, and no issues with sagging or other problems with the leather.

[Ken Robb]

The Brooks site offers a free 10 year warranty if the buyer registers his purchase within 3 months.

[RichTheRoadie]

Anyone got any experience of the Selle Italia Storica in the later leather version (not the original unpadded version with leather patches - that was the Storika)?





(apologies for the massive pic!)

This appeals because it looks like a 'normal' saddle, but it'd defeat the object if it doesn't work like a proper leather saddle...

[merckx]

Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie

Anyone got any experience of the Selle Italia Storica in the later leather version (not the original unpadded version with leather patches - that was the Storika)?





(apologies for the massive pic!)

This appeals because it looks like a 'normal' saddle, but it'd defeat the object if it doesn't work like a proper leather saddle...

It occurred to me that you are searching for a trophy. That would be a good one to place on your mantel. If you are searching for something functional, that you can sit on for 10 or more hours, then I would pause. Berthoud, Ideale, and yes, even Brooks despite some warts, offer good choices. Keep us updated and send some pics of your machine with your new leather saddle when it arrives.

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by merckx

It occurred to me that you are searching for a trophy. That would be a good one to place on your mantel. If you are searching for something functional, that you can sit on for 10 or more hours, then I would pause. Berthoud, Ideale, and yes, even Brooks despite some warts, offer good choices. Keep us updated and send some pics of your machine with your new leather saddle when it arrives.

Well that's an odd statement.

I've long been intrigued by leather saddles and have had Swifts and Swallows in the past (albeit not for long enough to break in because I was impatient and even more impetuous back then). I have a bike coming that would suit a leather saddle and bar tape very well, so it seems like a good idea to reconsider one and giving it the longer term trial it deserves.

Brooks Swallows are hard to find - especially in Australia - and I've heard bad reports of late, some of which has been corroborated here. I am simply trying to find an alternative that suits my demands on the aesthetics (yes I am fussy in this regard, which rules out the likes of Ideale and Brooks B17s), will work well with an inline post and slack seat angle (which is my challenge with the Berthoud as the rails look very short, so with no means of trialling them it could be an expensive mistake) and that isn't going to sag in the first month of use.

And who said anything about "10 or more hours"?!

[palincss]

Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie

I am simply trying to find an alternative that suits my demands on the aesthetics (yes I am fussy in this regard, which rules out the likes of Ideale and Brooks B17s), will work well with an inline post and slack seat angle (which is my challenge with the Berthoud as the rails look very short, so with no means of trialling them it could be an expensive mistake) and that isn't going to sag in the first month of use.

The rails on a Berthoud Aspin aren't any shorter than those on a B.17. If you have a problem with setback, clearly it is because you are using "an inline post." Get one with some setback and you should be fine. It's not like they're thin on the ground.

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by palincss

The rails on a Berthoud Aspin aren't any shorter than those on a B.17. If you have a problem with setback, clearly it is because you are using "an inline post." Get one with some setback and you should be fine. It's not like they're thin on the ground.

How can I compare to a B17 when I've never used one (and never will)?

Also, this bike needs an inline post because it has a 72º seat angle when I would usually run a 73 or 73.5º - my concern is more one of the saddle having to sit too far forwards and looking ridiculous as a consequence. Less of a problem if it's the saddle I want to use and that is the only way it'll work on the bike, but not something I want to fork out a small fortune for just to test.

My comment about the rails on the Berthoud is related to the fact they look so short that this could still be a problem with the inline post; thereby exacerbating the issue (and expensive outlay) by needing to find a post with not-too-much setback to get it in the right place.

EDIT: Case in point - the below Galibier is on a post with A LOT of setback and the nose still hangs way out front. Again, if I liked the saddle I could live with it, but it's an expensive test if I don't: