Brooks Swallow (B15) - do they still sag quickly?

[RichTheRoadie]

Hi folks, I usually only post in the classifieds and galleries so I feel like a bit of an infiltrator posting in other parts!

Anyway, I’m contemplating a Brooks Swallow/B15 for my next build, but the internet is rife with stories of how they sag really quickly these days - is that still true, or have Brooks fixed it now?

Any firsthand (and preferably fairly recent) advice or experience would be welcomed.

[jamesdak]

Hmmm, I have a few Brooks saddles going on some of the bikes and have used some over a dozen years now. I've yet to need to take a wrench to any of my Brooks saddles or the Gyes "look alike" saddles I have.

I suspect many users may be using too much of whatever product to soften the leather and then it stretches but that's just a guess.

All mine got Proofhide top and bottom when new and I can't remember ever applying it again.

[redir]

I've given up on those. I really liked them, like a lot! After years of problems with plastic saddles because I have a left sit bone that protrudes more then the right I went with the Brooks and it was like heaven. But what I found was they last about 3 years before they tear at the rivets and I have broken the Ti bolt on one of them. The sag was not terrible though and easily fixed with adjustment but one of mine sagged enough that it had very little adjustment left. But then it tore at the rivet so I don't know how much longer it would have lasted.

I've been through 3 of them and while I truly do love them I find that for the price it's just not worth it.

I do weigh 200lbs on a good day, more like 210 now. So if you are a lightweight then it might work out for you.

[rwsaunders]

Rich…I know that they do, after having used them for a few years and especially when compared to a Berthoud saddle. I’m 165-170# for reference. They sure do look nice though, but I gave up on them. Same bike, Swallow and Aspin in photos.

[jamesdak]

Dang..... what I am doing wrong not to be having these problems? I'm no flyweight either?

Let me throw this out there. See if you can find the Gyes version of the swallow saddles. They look the same, have longer rails, have some kind of fabric reinforcement on the underside, seem to be thicker leather, and are much cheaper than a Brooks.

I have two of those in use and love them too.

Here's the Gyes version:



This might give you an idea on the longer rails and thicker leather:

[wc1934]

I too pondered that question, even thought I am a flyweight. That said, I went with the Berthoud. Best saddle I have ever owned (think I paid 10 bucks for shipping and arrived from France in 3 days).

[palincss]

Originally Posted by wc1934

I too pondered that question, even thought I am a flyweight. That said, I went with the Berthoud. Best saddle I have ever owned (think I paid 10 bucks for shipping and arrived from France in 3 days).

Which Berthoud? The Aspin? How about the narrow one, the Galibier?

[merckx]

I've had an Aspin. It is a fabulously built saddle. The craftsmanship won't disappoint. It is comfortable, and every time I sat on it, I thought I could live with it. Then I would ride my other bike with the B17, and I would audibly say, "ahhhhhh.....". Then I would ride my other bike again with the Aspin, and conclude that it felt good, and I could live with it. Again, back on the other bike with the B17, Ahhhhhhhh.....

If you take care of a Brooks it will be fine for a while. I use a Berthoud rain cover when it is wet, and I always use an old Binda strap that I fasten around the saddle to prevent the sides from splaying when the bike is hanging from a peg. I seldom mess with the tension nut, and don't bathe it in goop. Just once a year a bit on the tender side.

If you are into heirloom quality stuff, the Ideale 90 saddle is beyond sublime. Super quality leather. I had a 90, but really need a 92 at this stage in the game. I have all digits crossed that Fred will release a Diagonal 92 before I buy the farm.

[merckx]

Regarding Brooks again, if they could use a quality piece of leather like what is used on the Ideale, it would be a stellar product. I once wrote to Brooks to suggest that they release a premium B17 that brings the leather quality back to the halcyon days of their heritage, again, like what Ideale is currently using, I would pay 100 clams more for it. I bet you would too.

[Ken Robb]

I think I remember that Brooks made a Champion model that cost a bit extra but was made with thicker leather than a B-17. Of course quite a few buyers then bitched that they took too long to break in.

[merckx]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

I think I remember that Brooks made a Champion model that cost a bit extra but was made with thicker leather than a B-17. Of course quite a few buyers then bitched that they took too long to break in.

My wife claims I am a hard-ass. Bring on the thick, juicy leather.

I should add that it is not necessarily the thickness of the leather, but also the cut and quality that tips the balance.

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by redir

I've given up on those. I really liked them, like a lot! After years of problems with plastic saddles because I have a left sit bone that protrudes more then the right I went with the Brooks and it was like heaven. But what I found was they last about 3 years before they tear at the rivets and I have broken the Ti bolt on one of them. The sag was not terrible though and easily fixed with adjustment but one of mine sagged enough that it had very little adjustment left. But then it tore at the rivet so I don't know how much longer it would have lasted.

I've been through 3 of them and while I truly do love them I find that for the price it's just not worth it.

I do weigh 200lbs on a good day, more like 210 now. So if you are a lightweight then it might work out for you.

Originally Posted by rwsaunders

Rich…I know that they do, after having used them for a few years and especially when compared to a Berthoud saddle. I’m 165-170# for reference. They sure do look nice though, but I gave up on them. Same bike, Swallow and Aspin in photos.

That Weigle... *swoon*. I digress...

Thanks for the feedback (and not just these ^^ two posts). I like the idea of the Berthoud Aspin or Galibier, but the nose always looks so long - which would be exaggerated on this new build as the frame has a slack seat angle (72º) so I need to use an inline post.

I'm about 185lbs (maybe slightly more at the moment, but rarely less than 180 even on a good day). Anyone who knows me (especially from across the hall) knows I don't keep bikes for long so if a Brooks takes 3yrs to sag then I'm fine with that - my concern is that I've been hearing stories of it only taking 3 *weeks*!

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Let me throw this out there. See if you can find the Gyes version of the swallow saddles. They look the same, have longer rails, have some kind of fabric reinforcement on the underside, seem to be thicker leather, and are much cheaper than a Brooks.

Gotta say I like the look of those. Looks like a few decent options on their website too, but no means to buy direct - where did you get yours?

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by palincss

Which Berthoud? The Aspin? How about the narrow one, the Galibier?

Same saddle, different rails - the Aspin has steel rails whilst the Galibier has Ti.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie

Gotta say I like the look of those. Looks like a few decent options on their website too, but no means to buy direct - where did you get yours?

Yeah, that is the problem with these now days. Used to be Crow Cycle sold them and even Velo Orange did. Several places seem to have them rebranded under one name or another. I think my last one came off Ebay.

These guys might have them.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m18b0s20...addles-Leather

[RichTheRoadie]

Originally Posted by RichTheRoadie

Same saddle, different rails - the Aspin has steel rails whilst the Galibier has Ti.

Oops, my bad - it's the Soulor that is the steel version of the Galibier.