Modern Hardtails

[fourflys]

I finally sold my 26" Ibis Mojo SL a couple months back and have been thinking about a hardtail as I just like the simplicity of a hardtail I think..

I got an email from "Singletracks" with a list of new, long-travel, slack HT hardtails.. it got me wondering if there was a HT angle that would be too slack for what most hardtail folks, who aren't doing a bunch of dirt jumping, might want.. also, is 180mm of travel too much for a hardtail?

I know we have quite a few MTB riders in here, so.. I'll link the current article and the list they linked from 2018 for reference..

https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gea...&utm_campaign=

2018 list-
https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-gea...ain-bikes-get/

Thanks!

[Likes2ridefar]

full suspension!

I have a lux canyon trail that is billed as a down country bike and I’m finding with its current 120tpi ardent race 2.35 tires I can usually match or beat anything my rigid gravel bike can do all in more comfort and stability especially when it points steeply up or down. Even on the road the bike flies when locked out and is not hard to carry speed.

[prototoast]

I haven't gotten it built up yet, but I just bought an Ibis DV9 frame. Even though it's an "xc" frame, it's got a 66.5 head angle, which is quite slack by the standards of XC hardtails a decade ago. This was my assessment of the right level of handling for my type of riding (not extreme or jumping, but values stability). That's with a 120 fork, but it's compatible with up to a 140 fork, which would slacken it out considerably.

[Alistair]

It really depends on what terrain you ride.

A lot of the long travel HTs get ridden at parks, with a heavy emphasis on the downhill stuff. Pretty common in the UK.

For general green/blue trail, and still able to climb and ride gravel without feeling awful, I’d say 120-130mm is pretty good. 120mm lets you stay on some of the lighter weight forks (Fox SC 34, SID 35mm). Going to 130-140mm puts you on the heavier Pike or Fox 34 (non-SC).

Something like the Esker Japhy or Neuhaus Hummingbird would be a great do-it-all. Anything with more travel is generally really slack, really long, and probably less fun on more XC-oriented rides (vs trail/all-mountsin/ whatever you want to call it).

[fourflys]

^ good stuff, thanks!

[ah87]

I have a titanium Esker Japhy with 120mm Fox 34 fork. It's very slack — I measured the HT angle at 64.5 unsagged. I like to go fast when pointed down so I'm planning to up the travel to 130 at some point. This will slacken it out more, obviously, which is not necessarily what I want but I think it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make to get an extra 10mm of travel.

I think it rides the line between stable on downhills while still handling the twisty, stony NY area trails well. It climbs pretty well although you have to remember to keep weight on the handlebars to avoid wheelie-ing. The slack HT angle can lead to some wandering as well, but you get used to these things.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by ah87

I have a titanium Esker Japhy with 120mm Fox 34 fork.

I have the same bike, in steel, with a 130 fork and its really a lot of fun.

[pwgoode]

It really depends on where you're riding and how you ride. For normal XC/trail riding I think 120-130 mm travel on a hardtail with a headtube angle less than 68 degrees is just fine. But if you want to really fly downhill, hit jumps and drops than something more slack with 140-150 mm travel fork is going to be much better. I can't imagine that any sustained climbing would be fun on a hardtail with a 180 mm travel fork.

I have a steel hardtail with 67.5 head tube angle and 120 mm fork. Works great for the riding I do which is mostly rocky, rooty XC with rides usually in the 3-6 hour range. No jumps. Drops less than 2 feet.

[p nut]

I’ve had my Vassago Optimus Ti for 4 years now. Great bike. Raced it on “skinny” 2.3”s and also took it on the Whole Enchilada with 29 x 3” tires. I had it set up rigid (ENVE fork) but recently bought a 120mm SID, which seems to be a good match.
If I were to get 130-140 fork, I’d look at the Radimus ti.

[tootall]

I have a Trek Stache and I LOVE it. Handles great, and the 3" tires offer incredible traction and some nice cushion. It's on the 2018 list where they called the HA steep, but it's miles slacker than the 71°-70° HA XC bikes of the past I was used to. Combined with the short CS, it works very well for me. Don't know exactly what type of riding you're looking to do, so maybe it would or wouldn't work for you.

[EB]

The Stache is a cool, unique bike, but Trek discontinued it years ago and the plus tire market has evaporated. The geometry also does not work for everyone - it's very terrain dependent. NSMB did a cool min-max article on the Stache awhile back:

https://nsmb.com/articles/min-max-ro...rek-stache-29/

As unique as they were, I wouldn't generally recommend it.

[Spoker]

A light HT with about 66 HA and 120 mm 34-35 mm stanchions fork is so much fun.
Cross over to gravel rides without problems.

[benb]

The name of the game is using the dropper post and getting out of the saddle a lot.. that to me is what these new bikes are all about.

I wouldn't mind having a F/S bike again, I had one for a long time, but riding a hardtail again has really taught me lessons about getting my butt out of the saddle when it's the correct thing to do. The old bike let me get away with being sloppy.

[EB]

Besides using your dropper all the time - mine is dropped at least by some amount about 95% of the ride, other than on long flat and uphill pedals - the other thing with modern bikes is cornering, which works much differently than in the past and entirely differently than your road bike. This is probably the biggest point of adaptation and can be a bit of a mind-f#@# for awhile if you ride both disciplines.

[Hilltopperny]

My XC full suspension has a 66.5 degree head tube angle and so did my old Lynskey Live Wire. I didn't find it to be detrimental for any of the riding I do here in the Northeast. Both bikes climb well without extremely steep seat angles like a lot of modern trail bikes and handled the downhills better than the previous generation bikes with steeper angles.

My Baxter set up with 100mm suspension is awesome on the single track even though it's set up with drop bars. I bet it would also be great as a flat bar set up as well. It is basically a drop bar hardtail MTB, so aside from the lower bb it's still very capable for blue to old school black diamond XC trails we have here.

I personally would go full suspension for anything that takes over 140mm front fork, but I have to climb up everything to go back down in my hood. My trail bike has a slacker front end and steeper seat tube angle, but it is meant to handle rougher terrain than my XC bike. The trade off is that it isn't as lively on tight single track and it climbs comfortably/efficiently, but not as efficiently or fast as my XC bike.




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