There is no reason to buy a carbon bike

[benb]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

I'm not really a fan of his writing, but I agree with this take. It's hard to hear any kind of a voice in most mainstream cycling media that isn't essentially "buy, buy, buy".

I hate this cause it pervades all hobby stuff to a great degree, it's not unique to cycling.

It's the same thing in so many hobbies where the journalism is almost completely captured by the advertisers.

Formula for modern enthusiast journalism:

5% - useful content about the activity/sport/hobby. Educational, experience, etc..

25% - lionizing of professionals who engage in this sport/activity, but 50% of the article content about the professionals is about their gear choices, cause they wouldn't be pros if not for their gear choices

70% - Reviews of products made by the advertisers. No product ever gets less than 4 out of 5 stars. No matter how many standard deviations above the average price for the category a product is it still gets a good "value" rating.

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by reuben

Dang, Baron bringin' out the imperative tense! Rock on! (imperative)

Thank you for noticing. I also used to regularly wield the word 'prerogative', but thanks to Britney Spears that's become as country bumpkin as 'reckon', 'yonder', 'JayZUSSSSSS.'

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by p nut

The article was written by bikesnobnyc. Read light-heartedly with a grain of salt.

Yep. He's amusing as long as you know he doesn't actually believe a word he writes.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

Alas, on a tour sometimes the only thing you can securely lock your bike to is a parking rack.

Propping your bike against a tree/wall.. etc. works when you can keep an eye on the bike.

The scenarios you continue to propose and even claim seem...a touch far fetched.

You are going on a gravel road tour in an sparsely populated part of the country where there are bike racks, but no tree/bench/garbage can/street sign/phone pole in site? Where does that happen? I dont think I have ever come upon a town that has bike racks but no trees/benches/garbage cans/street sign/phone pole.

As for being scared to prop it against a wall- just lean 4 bikes into each other against the wall. Cable lock em. There- done. Nobody can carry 4 bikes with gear all together. It just doesnt happen in random Gravelroadville USA. If you are really scared, make your bike the 2nd in the pile.



Ride what you want, obviously. Your handwringing over it though is...curious.

[krooj]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

I’m not following this line of discussion. An audax bike is not a loaded touring bike (like a Trek 520 or a Surly Long Haul Trucker), it’s what we would describe as a light-touring bike. It’s basically a late 1960s stage racing bike with a few extra eyelets for racks and front panniers. 700C wheels, takes 32mm under fenders with medium reach brakes. 73degree parallel & 2” of trail. Not the lightest steel tubing, but the next lightest. It would be fine zipping around the Santa Cruz mountains, or any mountains. You could have a handlebar bag, or not as you please. Fenders or not, as you please. Weight between 20 and 25 lbs fully equipped, depending on frame size and weight of parts. French versions sometimes called “randonneuse.” Depending on the specifics of the frame you might be able to run 650B x 38mm with long reach brakes. Occasionally I see modern bikes built to this spec—the Soma Speedster comes to mind. NHAero’s Bob Jackson is an example of this kind of bicycle, as is my 1972 Paramount “touring” bike, and my 1992 Davidson Signature Touring bike. I have touring in quotes next to the Paramount because as far as I know in 1972 the only difference between the racing bike and the touring bike was a Campy triple crank, an extended range cog set, and a touring derailleur.

This might as well be cosplay. Nobody is seriously riding around the Santa Cruz mountains on audax bikes from the 60s or anything even approximating them. What you will find is a bunch of typical road and all-road bikes.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I think what you're saying is that if you only have one bike and you like to leave that one bike locked up in public, it's better...

...to have replacement value home owner's insurance....

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

I'm not really a fan of his writing, but I agree with this take. It's hard to hear any kind of a voice in most mainstream cycling media that isn't essentially "buy, buy, buy".

In fairness to mainstream cycling media, a large share of their audience is people who want to buy something and are trying to decide which product. For those of us who have been at it a long time and know exactly what we want (or own exactly what we want) it can seem like an overabundance of articles just reviewing new bikes, but as someone who crossed over within the past year--bought a mountain bike after being a largely road-centric rider--I can say that all those articles add a lot of value.

[NHAero]

I might be another worrywart. I bought my Habanero frame so I could pack it and take it on a plane without being nervous that it gets somehow battered/bent by the inevitable TSA re-packing job, combined with the baggage handling free-for-all. I don't want to worry about my Bingham in that situation, so I use it for any tours I can drive to vs. flying. It turns out having a similarly set-up Ti bike is awesome for a wet roads and winter bike here on Martha's Vineyard, so when the Habanero is home it wears fenders, a rack, and a good sized bar bag.

In the olden days, ads for used steel bikes didn't include language telling the prospective buyer that the frame was free from dents. Of course I've seen dented vintage bikes, but my sense is that the increased strength of modern steel, combined with larger diameter tubes used, makes light steel frames more susceptible to damage. That damage is unlikely to prevent you from finishing your tour, though.

I just paid $100 to ship my Nagasawa to San Diego because I packed that frameset so UPS would need to run over it with a forklift to mess it up. I don't have much attachment to the vast majority of stuff I own, it's just stuff, but my custom bikes are sort of at the top of my stuff-attachment list. These days that includes my '72 Bob Jackson and my '22 Bingham. I like the others a lot, or wouldn't own them, but they are replaceable. (The Bingham is replaceable, but that would mean a long time without my favorite ride )

[Mark Davison]

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

The scenarios you continue to propose and even claim seem...a touch far fetched.

You are going on a gravel road tour in an sparsely populated part of the country where there are bike racks, but no tree/bench/garbage can/street sign/phone pole in site? Where does that happen? I dont think I have ever come upon a town that has bike racks but no trees/benches/garbage cans/street sign/phone pole.

As for being scared to prop it against a wall- just lean 4 bikes into each other against the wall. Cable lock em. There- done. Nobody can carry 4 bikes with gear all together. It just doesnt happen in random Gravelroadville USA. If you are really scared, make your bike the 2nd in the pile.



Ride what you want, obviously. Your handwringing over it though is...curious.

I’ll be alone in Whitefish for a few days before the ride.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

I’ll be alone in Whitefish for a few days before the ride.

If you're alone, put the bike in a bike rack or lock it to some other object. Are you afraid wolves are going to knock it over and damage it?

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

The scenarios you continue to propose and even claim seem...a touch far fetched.

Yes.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

No, dropped from the luggage car, smacked with a suitcase, or shoved violently against a parking rack (which is usually just a bare upside down U of metal). The kind of thing that would dent a steel frame.

You act like carbon frames just shatter. That just hasn't been my experience. I had my Diverge fall halfway off a rear rack while the car was moving. The back wheel wasn't secure and hit the road with the car going over 40. No damage.

Had a similar issue with my carbon fatbike at highway speeds. A paint scrape and that is all.

I have crashed my face off on my carbon mtb frames. Never broken anything except metal pedals and metal chains.

My Crux, leaned against a wall, fell over on Saturday. Tiny scratch on the lever. Road it 40 miles home.

Sure, anything can break, but it feels like you are over weighting the probability that a bike is going to break just because it is carbon.

[nmrt]

This is EXACTLY what I thought about carbon bikes....back in 2005.
Almost 20 years riding them, and my opinion has changed. Carbon fiber tech is one great way to design a great riding, reliable, and safe bike, when done correctly.

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

No, dropped from the luggage car, smacked with a suitcase, or shoved violently against a parking rack (which is usually just a bare upside down U of metal). The kind of thing that would dent a steel frame.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mark Davison

I think the more defensible statement is along the lines of a Caveat Emptor (formal warning) for prospective purchasers: if you are not a serious racer (professional, formal amateur, or devotee of fast group rides) you should consider that very lightweight road racing bicycles are designed with lower safety margins than you might prefer. This is true whether the material is carbon fiber composite, steel, or titanium. In addition, carbon fiber composite has special requirements for treatment while performing repairs or choosing car racks.

much ado about nothing I think.. there is no production carbon bike made that is so lightweight or thin as to lower safety margins.. the US safety reqs are pretty harsh, but not as harsh as the EU where most of the bikes talked about are sold.. I would never be worried about a production carbon bike (from any of the major brands) from a safety perspective.. a one or two off bike special made for a pro, maybe..

as far as special requirements, again, much ado about nothing.. you shouldn't clamp a carbon top tube in a work stand same as you shouldn't clamp a steel Colnago or other high performance steel bike by the top tube either.. same for car racks..

to each their own though..

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

You act like carbon frames just shatter. That just hasn't been my experience. I had my Diverge fall halfway off a rear rack while the car was moving. The back wheel wasn't secure and hit the road with the car going over 40. No damage.

Had a similar issue with my carbon fatbike at highway speeds. A paint scrape and that is all.

dude, do we need to have an intervention on how to properly secure a bike to a car?

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by fourflys

dude, do we need to have an intervention on how to properly secure a bike to a car?

For sure, the first one was definitely my fault. Very hard ride so brain was a bit mushy and I was in a hurry. Just didn't pay attention.

The second time was my friends fault. He told me he had a fool proof way to get our fatbikes on his rack that wasn't designed for fatbikes. Fool proof....