Rivendell saved for now...

[raygunner]

I think they got put in a tight spot.

The prices for their MUSA frames dramatically increased over the past few years. Then turned to doing cheaper Taiwan-made frames (which really didn't meet the standard for Riv frames, IMO).

They MUSA frames were culled from the line-up and the Atlantis & Homer were redesigned, batch made in Taiwan, with a cheaper price.

I paid $2000 for my 2012 Atlantis and when they ended offering MUSA Atlantis I believe their prices were $2700. Great bike but I wouldn't pay $2700 for it so I can see why they wanted to move away from Waterford.

Who ever previously discussed luxury items, like Leica, hit on something. They need to make their bikes (and parts, lifestyle, etc) something to admire.

An idea would be to dramatically cull the line-up to only the best frames & customs. And then partner w/ domestic frame builders to build MUSA frames where people can see via social media their frame being built. Offer a small array of stock colors & small upgrades. Design the process so people want to buy your bikes.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by raygunner

I think they got put in a tight spot.

The prices for their MUSA frames dramatically increased over the past few years. Then turned to doing cheaper Taiwan-made frames (which really didn't meet the standard for Riv frames, IMO).

They MUSA frames were culled from the line-up and the Atlantis & Homer were redesigned, batch made in Taiwan, with a cheaper price.

I paid $2000 for my 2012 Atlantis and when they ended offering MUSA Atlantis I believe their prices were $2700. Great bike but I wouldn't pay $2700 for it so I can see why they wanted to move away from Waterford.

Who ever previously discussed luxury items, like Leica, hit on something. They need to make their bikes (and parts, lifestyle, etc) something to admire.

An idea would be to dramatically cull the line-up to only the best frames & customs. And then partner w/ domestic frame builders to build MUSA frames where people can see via social media their frame being built. Offer a small array of stock colors & small upgrades. Design the process so people want to buy your bikes.

I agree with this suggestion. What made Rivendell frames great was that they always had nice and interesting lugs and we knew they were built by some of the best builders from either the US or Japan.

When they went to Taiwan, that seemed to change as the frame because tig-welded and what lugs they had were very simple and, at least to me, not very attractive. But I understand these were done to cut cost. However, Riv frames now went down from a high-end production frameset to more like something you find from Soma, Surly and All-City.

As for making them a luxury item, their current offerings don't scream luxury. Earlier, I pointed out that Richard Sachs is the master of marketing and knows exactly how to market his framesets as a luxury item that people wanted. The rebuttal I got was RS' framesets are custom and not the same market. But, if someone is seeking "the best" they will know and want a custom frameset measured to their specific geometry and need.

So I agree that if Rivendell marketed MUSA framesets from like Waterford or their custom builders like Mark Nobilette or even Japanese made frames from Toyo, they could market with "Grant's custom designed geometry." That could attract the high-end customer who wants a Grant designed frameset. Make it all about Grant and his philosophy and knowledge and that should attract more people, especially at the high-end of market.

Good Luck!

[colker]

Originally Posted by raygunner

Who ever previously discussed luxury items, like Leica, hit on something. They need to make their bikes (and parts, lifestyle, etc) something to admire.

An idea would be to dramatically cull the line-up to only the best frames & customs. And then partner w/ domestic frame builders to build MUSA frames where people can see via social media their frame being built. Offer a small array of stock colors & small upgrades. Design the process so people want to buy your bikes.

They already have charisma and a stand out look of their own. All they need is build a bridge to the luxury market. Their leisure bikes, built for comfort but w/ quality you can´t find anymore will sell like candy to the very very rich.

[colker]

Originally Posted by bfd

I agree with this suggestion. What made Rivendell frames great was that they always had nice and interesting lugs and we knew they were built by some of the best builders from either the US or Japan.

When they went to Taiwan, that seemed to change as the frame because tig-welded and what lugs they had were very simple and, at least to me, not very attractive. But I understand these were done to cut cost. However, Riv frames now went down from a high-end production frameset to more like something you find from Soma, Surly and All-City.

As for making them a luxury item, their current offerings don't scream luxury. Earlier, I pointed out that Richard Sachs is the master of marketing and knows exactly how to market his framesets as a luxury item that people wanted. The rebuttal I got was RS' framesets are custom and not the same market. But, if someone is seeking "the best" they will know and want a custom frameset measured to their specific geometry and need.

So I agree that if Rivendell marketed MUSA framesets from like Waterford or their custom builders like Mark Nobilette or even Japanese made frames from Toyo, they could market with "Grant's custom designed geometry." That could attract the high-end customer who wants a Grant designed frameset. Make it all about Grant and his philosophy and knowledge and that should attract more people, especially at the high-end of market.

Good Luck!

RS builds performance racing bikes to go fast w/ an athletic fit. He is a frame builder. GP is a designer, a curator of bike parts and bicycle designer.
He designs comfortable bikes to be ridden by anyone and distances from racing. A lot of (very rich) people want a bicycle like GP designs w/ long comfortable chainstays and more exclusive than a walmart bike. It should not be custom. It should be a showroom floor bike but expensive, precious... akin to an automatic watch. That´s his ideal market.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by colker

They already have charisma and a stand out look of their own. All they need is build a bridge to the luxury market. Their leisure bikes, built for comfort but w/ quality you can´t find anymore will sell like candy to the very very rich.

why? they offer nothing innovative, new or interesting. why would someone like me be interested in such a boring offering when folks are out there actually innovating, or building better versions of what they profess to do? I find the company and their offerings incredibly boring to be honest.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

why? they offer nothing innovative, new or interesting. why would someone like me be interested in such a boring offering when folks are out there actually innovating, or building better versions of what they profess to do? I find the company and their offerings incredibly boring to be honest.

Because you are a hard core cyclist. I am talking about non cyclists, i am talking about people who want a beautifull bike w/ an old world artistic look and classic mechanical feel. A bike that is not a racing bike. That looks slow, pretty and friendly. That´s a Rivendell leisure frame. "Built like they used to be built".

[bfd]

Originally Posted by colker

RS builds performance racing bikes to go fast w/ an athletic fit. He is a frame builder. GP is a designer, a curator of bike parts and bicycle designer.
He designs comfortable bikes to be ridden by anyone and distances from racing. A lot of (very rich) people want a bicycle like GP designs w/ long comfortable chainstays and more exclusive than a walmart bike. It should not be custom. It should be a showroom floor bike but expensive, precious... akin to an automatic watch. That´s his ideal market.

That's right. But RS also knows how to make touring bikes and cross bikes, which could easily be "gravel" or "country" (GP's terminology), that can be used by anyone and not necessarily for racing. Moreover, RS has also made at least a few "custom" frames for Grant/Riv and I don't think any of them would be considered "racing-style."

But I think we have the same point - market a "GP Design" bike as a luxury item. It could be a racing style, similar to what GP offers in the old Road Standard, Legolas (cross) or Roadeo or offer something more comfortable like his current offerings, which according to Joe, seems to sell well.

You are also right about these not being "custom." Even if you want to spend what $3500 for a "custom" Rivendell, that has its name on the downtube, it isn't really custom. They are custom made for you based on GP's design. You can't even choose a custom color as GP won't allow say a neon yellow or orange Rivendell.

But the bottom line is if Grant wants to market his bikes as a luxury item, it would have to market it has a GP Design. Think "Porsche Design" as an example.

Good Luck!

[raygunner]

Originally Posted by colker

Because you are a hard core cyclist. I am talking about non cyclists, i am talking about people who want a beautifull bike w/ an old world artistic look and classic mechanical feel. A bike that is not a racing bike. That looks slow, pretty and friendly. That´s a Rivendell leisure frame. "Built like they used to be built".

Exactly!

[bfd]

Originally Posted by colker

Because you are a hard core cyclist. I am talking about non cyclists, i am talking about people who want a beautifull bike w/ an old world artistic look and classic mechanical feel. A bike that is not a racing bike. That looks slow, pretty and friendly. That´s a Rivendell leisure frame. "Built like they used to be built".

I think what you're talking about here is something like the mixte sold by Rivendell. Weren't they called something like Betty Foy or Wilbur something? Did those sell? I know they weren't cheap and I don't recall ever seeing one around the SF Bay Area, although I bet there were a lot of them sold to us locals. Here's one with brifters!

Good Luck!



Here's another with how Grant likes to market them:

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by colker

... I am talking about non cyclists, i am talking about people who want a beautifull bike w/ an old world artistic look and classic mechanical feel. A bike that is not a racing bike. That looks slow, pretty and friendly. That´s a Rivendell leisure frame. "Built like they used to be built".

Target Market:

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by colker

They already have charisma and a stand out look of their own. All they need is build a bridge to the luxury market. Their leisure bikes, built for comfort but w/ quality you can´t find anymore will sell like candy to the very very rich.

I think you are confusing nostalgia and luxury. E-bikes that haul groceries and kids fit better into the small little space you are describing.

[Ed-B]

Originally Posted by colker

... I am talking about people who want a beautifull bike w/ an old world artistic look and classic mechanical feel. A bike that is not a racing bike. That looks slow, pretty and friendly. That´s a Rivendell leisure frame. "Built like they used to be built".

This reminded me of a company we don't see often, and rarely discuss: Pashley.

Check this out: https://www.pashley.co.uk/

Look at the breadth of their offerings. Something for almost everyone. And pricing looks reasonable. Even "hard core cyclists" might go for the Roadfinder or Pathfinder models. Personally I really like that Roadfinder!

[colker]

I would buy the green bike on the spot if i see it... It screams good times.

Edit: the car inside the garage makes me drool.

[Lewis Moon]

Originally Posted by Ed-B

This reminded me of a company we don't see often, and rarely discuss: Pashley.

Check this out: https://www.pashley.co.uk/

Look at the breadth of their offerings. Something for almost everyone. And pricing looks reasonable. Even "hard core cyclists" might go for the Roadfinder or Pathfinder models. Personally I really like that Roadfinder!

Oh, Mommy. The top green one makes this inveterate roadie weak in the knees. I'd flog the hell out of that.

[Ed-B]

Yeah, marketing at Pashley is on point. They're doing it right!

Check out the gallery photos, too. Scroll through...

https://www.pashley.co.uk/gallery/bi...pe-38-copy.jpg

The owner's gallery is very entertaining, too, charming in some cases.

https://www.pashley.co.uk/gallery/my...rk-garratt.jpg