Rivendell saved for now...

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

I personally wouldn't be thrilled by my boss talking about any compensation change arrangements we've made on a public blog, especially if I'm looking for employment elsewhere.

Nothing like negotiating against yourself to have it out there your current compensation has suddenly been reduced by 40%. Talk about resetting your own market...

This I agree with. The personal wages thing being put on a public blog is a BAD idea..

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

And you can kiss my *** with the keyboard comment, boy. I don't work during the day and my evening shift is from home. We all have phones we can type on.

Why do you keep calling people “boy”?

[Keith A]

Ok guys, keep it civil and drop the personal attacks, or this discussion will be closed.

[Burnette]

It's possible to be passionate and yet civil. And it's the only way to really get an understanding of another person's view and it keeps them open to hearing yours.


This last Riv blog post has pay cuts, an admission of a poor revenue stream, a realization that they, in his own words are a "micro niche" and an open and honest talk of how best to end the enterprise.

You can't candy coat that. It fools no one by even trying and if anything it paints a picture of just how a person can refuse to see what's really happening and then plod blindly forward, causing just the opposite effect of what they were aiming for.

[William]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's possible to be passionate and yet civil. And it's the only way to really get an understanding of another person's view and it keeps them open to hearing yours.


.

Very true, and let's keep it going that way.




William

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's possible to be passionate and yet civil. And it's the only way to really get an understanding of another person's view and it keeps them open to hearing yours.


This last Riv blog post has pay cuts, an admission of a poor revenue stream, a realization that they, in his own words are a "micro niche" and an open and honest talk of how best to end the enterprise.

You can't candy coat that. It fools no one by even trying and if anything it paints a picture of just how a person can refuse to see what's really happening and then plod blindly forward, causing just the opposite effect of what they were aiming for.

You're absolutely right and sure of it, and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Irony is a thing.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

You're absolutely right and sure of it, and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Irony is a thing.

From your chair and prior and seemingly current knowledge you see blue skys here.

Now look at from the eyes of a potential customer with no prior knowledge of Riv that went to the site and read that blog. It reads like the death throws if a business.

Again, nobody is wishing that, it just seems are witnesses to it.

[Joe Remi]

I have clearly not stated blue skies, I just disagree with a lot of the "Riv should change to this or that" advice in this thread. I think the problem is largely insurmountable in a bicycle and internet world which looks startlingly different from when Riv was a garage producing a magazine with a mail order form in the back.

I'm a fatalist about this just like I am about my other passion, auto racing: The world has changed and the audience is smaller and nothing is going to change that people have so many more options now. So you do your thing and hope for the best as long as you can continue to do it.

[gasman]

Joe-
You seem to manage to continue with small digs- calling people boy, son, subtly putting other opinions down.
You are receiving a time out as others want to continue the discussion in a more civil manner.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

I have clearly not stated blue skies, I just disagree with a lot of the "Riv should change to this or that" advice in this thread. I think the problem is largely insurmountable in a bicycle and internet world which looks startlingly different from when Riv was a garage producing a magazine with a mail order form in the back.

I'm a fatalist about this just like I am about my other passion, auto racing: The world has changed and the audience is smaller and nothing is going to change that people have so many more options now. So you do your thing and hope for the best as long as you can continue to do it.

Well now after reading that Joe you see we are actually on the same page here. In fact it's what many others were posting too.

The influence of the internet, a smaller audience and an oversaturated market. See, we actually agree here.

Joe, I guess where we diverged is that I, at times, am an optimist and believe there is a way to keep Riv afloat. And those musings seemed to have rubbed you wrong but I want you to know that it wasn't my intent.

I just felt that if they made some adjustments, sell only what sells best, cut out stuff on the periphery and right size staff...

But yeah, I agree, if it stays on it's current course, pulling out if this may indeed be an insurmountable task.

[colker]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

I'm a fatalist about this just like I am about my other passion, auto racing: The world has changed and the audience is smaller and nothing is going to change that people have so many more options now. So you do your thing and hope for the best as long as you can continue to do it.

I agree w/ you: we live in a worse place when it comes to certain aspects. Otoh there is a bigger percentage of people included in lots of things they didn´t have access...
Anyways.. there is a destructive, anuhilating force in new technologies like internet. It brings good, bad, ugly on the same level and money trumps over.
Some brands die in the proccess. Good brands. Others are revived as a masquerade of their previous identity. One example is Leica cameras. Leica was a tool for the professional photo journalist. It was a camera used in Vietnam by guys who were killed while changing our perception.. Leica could not compete w/ the japanese slr and almost disappeared. NOwadays Leica is a luxury item, something like a Rolex, used as a status symbol or as a toy/icon. It´s almost repulsive how a symbol of hard work becomes a luxury item.. but that´s how it survived. It morphed into something else. Leica was bought by Louis Vuitton. LV bought Pinarello as well. Those big fashion and branding houses do this: they buy tradition and sell style.
Rapha understood the nature of this game and played it very well: they boosted their image w/ loads of $$ till they found their buyer. I believe in this age to world commerce and chinese pricing, the way out for high end stylish business like Rivendell is being bought by a big style house. Yes, it will morph into an accessory for the wealthy. It will be the opposite of what it preaches now.. but i rather see them safe financially. It´s a bad world out there.

[dancinkozmo]

ive read through this thread and holy moly i gots to ask ..
burnette....would your day job happen to be professional cult deprogrammer ???

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

holy moly burnette....would your day job happen to be professional cult deprogrammer ???

Being from a big family, it teaches you to be an arbiter. I can look through the emotions that's causing division and focus on what's at the core of it.

As much as people argue, at the end if the day they just want to be heard and understood. I listen and I do try to see where they are coming from. And then I try bridge our divide.

There's good in that person, just some discomfort with the situation that comes out bad, a tendency to lash out, but once that side subsides you see we all are pretty close in perception of what's happening.

[colker]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

ive read through this thread and holy moly i gots to ask ..
burnette....would your day job happen to be professional cult deprogrammer ???

Isn´t all cycling lived as cult? Ain´t that half the fun?

[William]

One can disagree without resorting to name calling and insults. Some folks just can't seem to play nicely with others.


Riv was never on my radar, but that said I think we all hope they can turn it around. The tea leaves aren't looking good though...






William