Track Cycling... Just getting started

[BRad704]

Some thoughts and questions for those of you who have raced on a velodrome before. I'm halfway through my "Learn the Velodrome" intro training series in Colorado Springs and I can really see this being something I continue doing.

1- Future 'race' wheelset... I don't want to spend crazy money on wheels for my $400 alloy track bike, but having something nicer would be great. I've gone way down the rabbit hole and back several times looking at wheels already. It's hard for me to see hubs as anything more than bearing carriers on these.
SPOKES: How many is too many? too few? for track wheels? I see 32/32 combos, but also some 20/24. I know there are a lot of forces going on with track cycling, so I don't want to plan for something that's going to be inadequate.

• $400 Superteam 88mm on Novatec hubs? Online feedback on these seems to be mostly all good.
• $~800-1000 for something moderate but custom built?
• $BuyOnceCryOnce for a new or used 5spoke and disc? (this feels like overkill for someone just starting out)

2- Gearing. We're on a 333m concrete indoor track (Colorado Springs, the old 7/11 Velodrome). Novice limit I think is 86gi, or 48x15 like I have now. We did a flying 200m last night and I was 13.02s, but I know I can do better.
Max cadence was 137, which is about my limit before I start bouncing. That should work out to about 34.5mph max. But my peak power was lower than what I know I can do. I think it was a combo of spinning higher than my ideal high cadence, plus it was the first time I'm gone into 3&4 "at full speed" and it's a very diff sensation from riding tempo pacelines.
Maybe I'm just talking this one out, but I'm thinking about 53x15 or 55x16 (marginal efficiencies and whatnot)... that would still get me the 34.5mph but at 125ish cadence, which leaves me some room to accelerate.

3- the bike. 2016 Aventon Cordoba 58cm. Pretty much all stock and 18lbs. I did put on my own FSA bars and a 110x-17 stem, but the coach last night said I still looked jammed up on the bike, and recommended a 130mm with less angle. Already ordered a Kalloy Uno 130x-7 to try out.
I've also already named this bike "Darth Vader".

[m_sasso]

Forget 32 spoke wheels if you want to be competive, training yes, racing no. Are you going to bunch race or are you a sprinter? Spend your first money on gearing, cogs, chainrings, proper tools and getting your bike fit dialed in.

Spend the $800 to $1000 on a good used set of race wheels. Campy, Corima, FF, HED, Miche, Mavic ..... etc. You want tubulars for racing, clinchers OK for training. Lots of people start and leave track regularly so lots good used equipment available. Keep an eye here and the various velodrome boards around the US and Canada. https://www.facebook.com/groups/buyi...ngtrackcycling

[ridethecliche]

Paging Sdc/cdr!
Aki!

[KrispyK]

I would keep your eyes out for a used 5 spoke/disc. They pop up pretty often in good shape.

For fitting I would recommend the longest stem you can tolerate. Track races are much shorter than any road riding. so you can get away with a longer/more aerodynamic position. Also factor in that you do not have the additional reach that road hoods give you into your fitting.

Faster F200 times will come with learning the line/windup, gearing and learning to spin. A surprising amount of technique goes into a fast F200. If you look at World cups and other elite events the riders who are competing on there home track tend to do a bit better in qualifying than usual due to knowing/practicing on that track so much.

Keep up the spinning! Your body will get used to higher Cadence.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

Forget 32 spoke wheels if you want to be competive, training yes, racing no. Are you going to bunch race or are you a sprinter? Spend your first money on gearing, cogs, chainrings, proper tools and getting your bike fit dialed in.

Spend the $800 to $1000 on a good used set of race wheels. Campy, Corima, FF, HED, Miche, Mavic ..... etc. You want tubulars for racing, clinchers OK for training. Lots of people start and leave track regularly so lots good used equipment available. Keep an eye here and the various velodrome boards around the US and Canada. https://www.facebook.com/groups/buyi...ngtrackcycling

Originally Posted by KrispyK

I would keep your eyes out for a used 5 spoke/disc. They pop up pretty often in good shape.

For fitting I would recommend the longest stem you can tolerate. Track races are much shorter than any road riding. so you can get away with a longer/more aerodynamic position. Also factor in that you do not have the additional reach that road hoods give you into your fitting.

Faster F200 times will come with learning the line/windup, gearing and learning to spin. A surprising amount of technique goes into a fast F200. If you look at World cups and other elite events the riders who are competing on there home track tend to do a bit better in qualifying than usual due to knowing/practicing on that track so much.

Keep up the spinning! Your body will get used to higher Cadence.

Great info! thanks yall.
That FB group is a good find. I tried looking for something that before unsuccessfully.

I'm a Cat 3/4 in general, with about 1300watts consistently but I'm 190lbs. I do like to sprint and have some cat4 races that way, but cat 4 is like that. I'm going to plan on doing all the events to figure out my niche, but I'm really just enjoying all of it.

Is there a real benefit to the 5spoke and disc over some really deep 'regular' wheels? Or is that in the very-marginal-gains area? either way, i'll definitely put out some feelers for used wheels very soon.
I did see on FB Marketplace a set of HED 3c wheels for under $600. Tubular.

The nuances of riding the track and then riding it FAST are so interesting to me.

[Gummee]

Check with the refs at the track to see if bolt-on skewers count before you buy wheels. At Sandy Eggo they did so I ran a road front and track rear till I build a pair of 440s with Superbe Pro track hubbed 24h wheels.

I had a co-worker recently that said everyone's going to huge rings and cogs for less friction. When I was racing everyone was riding right around 90" so 53x16, 49x15, and 50x15. If that's what they're racing there, I still have my collection of rings and cogs that I'm coming to the realization that I'll likely never use again. I'm riding a 48x18 on the road and that's plenty big

I've heard good things about the Fuji track pro, but never rode one. My last track bike was a custom Russ Denny AL. I started with an unkown steel frame that I was given because it'd gotten bent in a crash. Had a customer straighten it for me, then rode it to work for a few years before moving to a place with a velodrome. For lower level racing, you don't need much to start with...

Had a buddy riding a Cervelo P2C at the track. Seemed to be a good option at the time. It was aero with rear facing dropouts so the new Cervelo tri bikes are probably also a good bet.

I have a set of 303 tubulars I need to sell, but they're road wheels. If the track will let you use a bolt-on skewer, all you'll need is to re-hub the rear wheel. Save some money and have aero tubulars.

Just remember: never, EVER! stop pedaling, don't turn right, and don't underlap wheels and you'll be OK.

M

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by Gummee

Check with the refs at the track to see if bolt-on skewers count before you buy wheels. At Sandy Eggo they did so I ran a road front and track rear till I build a pair of 440s with Superbe Pro track hubbed 24h wheels.

I had a co-worker recently that said everyone's going to huge rings and cogs for less friction. When I was racing everyone was riding right around 90" so 53x16, 49x15, and 50x15. If that's what they're racing there, I still have my collection of rings and cogs that I'm coming to the realization that I'll likely never use again. I'm riding a 48x18 on the road and that's plenty big

I've heard good things about the Fuji track pro, but never rode one. My last track bike was a custom Russ Denny AL. I started with an unkown steel frame that I was given because it'd gotten bent in a crash. Had a customer straighten it for me, then rode it to work for a few years before moving to a place with a velodrome. For lower level racing, you don't need much to start with...

Had a buddy riding a Cervelo P2C at the track. Seemed to be a good option at the time. It was aero with rear facing dropouts so the new Cervelo tri bikes are probably also a good bet.

I have a set of 303 tubulars I need to sell, but they're road wheels. If the track will let you use a bolt-on skewer, all you'll need is to re-hub the rear wheel. Save some money and have aero tubulars.

Just remember: never, EVER! stop pedaling, don't turn right, and don't underlap wheels and you'll be OK.

M

Good call on the bolt on skewers. I've read about that option, but I don't know how this track feels about it yet. I did ask one of the coaches this week about oil or wax lube on the track and he basically said "use whatever you want, they're really laid back here". I'm thinking it's because it is a concrete track and the surface already isn't perfect, plus it's hella durable.

I like the Cordoba frame for now and don't plan on changing that for a while. to be 8 years old, it looks brand new.

Re-hubbing a nice set of road wheels is an interesting idea too. Depending on the bolt-on skewer situation. I'm guessing they won't care at all, and wouldn't even look at that too closely.

[RacerJRP]

Good stuff!

I just did the first of my track certification classes on Wednesday night. I'd like to support the track since it's so damn close to my house. I plan on doing some more open session, or maybe some of the low-key time trials stuff, to start.

[BRad704]

Originally Posted by RacerJRP

Good stuff!

I just did the first of my track certification classes on Wednesday night. I'd like to support the track since it's so damn close to my house. I plan on doing some more open session, or maybe some of the low-key time trials stuff, to start.

Heck Yeah!!

[StressStrain]

This thread is fascinating. I don't ride track but there's so much to learn here.

[m_sasso]

If you are going to use a quick release front hubed wheel, use these and you will have no issues, these are the very best, most aero option. I use them with an indestructible HED road Tri Spoke front wheel for selected track events and road TTs.

https://view-speed.com/store/p/view-...es-4-skewer-s4

[GOTHBROOKS]

your bike will explode and burst into flames if you try to turn right.

[bironi]

Good thread, thanks!

[nooneline]

welcome to track racing!

Honestly a set of $400 wheels can take you pretty far. It's not hard to find a set that has a handful of good features: well-sealed hubs, decent hardware, bladed spokes, offset holes in the rim, and a channel for the tire seam. My sweetheart had a set she happily raced through the categories and into UCI racing, National Championships, etc. You can spend the money you save on tires, chainrings, cogs, tools, and other misc gear that will be helpful along the way. Personally for spoked wheels I liked 24 or 28 spokes - a few times I rode a converted road wheel with fewer and felt a little wiggle hitting 43 degree banking at high speeds. Which might not matter for you; 33deg velodromes are pretty forgiving.

re: your peak power - basically everybody I know has hit their peak power from low cadences, suddenly accelerating. That's not what a flying 200 looks like - trying to hit your peak power from 110+ rpm is a challenge. But less important than your peak 1, 5 or 10 second power in a flying 200 is your maximal 30-second power - it's helpful to think of a flying 200 as a timed end of a roughly 30-second effort.

re your bike - looks like a solid bike to get started on. As you'll probably notice at the Springs, a lot of track racers are riding longer and higher than you might expect - a narrow, stretched out position is going to be powerful and aerodynamic, and a lot of people ride curiously large frames to accommodate them.

[Gummee]

I really miss racing at the track. The drive to race equation is way out of whack here in the DC area.

Mmmm Madisons. Mass chaos on 2 wheels. ...and tons of fun at the same time

M