Builder's Spotlights room?

[dustyrider]

I still think the sub-forums are lost because they're not a part of General Discussion. It would be nice if builders that contribute to our forum, either regularly in posts/threads or even monetarily, could have their posts from the Builder's Forum show up as a link in the GD forum. People like me who never go to another part of the forum could be pulled over into the Builder's Forum.
I used to be a part of many forums and I've always lost interest the more people got sectioned off into sub-forums...It's kinda what makes the Paceline great. There's really only a few snarks here and all the good folks all piled in together!

[schwa86]

Agree with dustyrider, I have gone to the sub forum and read (and enjoyed) the profiles, but I don’t instinctively frequent it unless pointed there from the general topics sub forum.

[EliteVelo]

Dave,

Thanks for bringing this to light, and while I am not a frame builder, I am a sponsor and enthusiast at the end of the day and enjoy looking at your work, both here and on IG. Simply amazing I must say.

That said, while most of you know that I am the North American importer for Bertoletti, Paceline has has provided me the opportunity to introduce them to you, the audience. For that, I am extremely appreciative.

Angry has mentioned the bigger brands, but how about bringing more attention to the the small guys and the guys that keep the forum alive? Maybe this becomes a discussion to appreciate what the small guys do?

"The bigger handbuilt houses like seven, moots, mosaic, firefly, etc and less from the one-man shops or very small operations?"

Perhaps this is a way to appreciate the fact that you can get a hand built frame, made to measure, in less time and for less money than one thought possible given the circumstances.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by EliteVelo

Dave,

Thanks for bringing this to light, and while I am not a frame builder, I am a sponsor and enthusiast at the end of the day and enjoy looking at your work, both here and on IG. Simply amazing I must say.

That said, while most of you know that I am the North American importer for Bertoletti, Paceline has has provided me the opportunity to introduce them to you, the audience. For that, I am extremely appreciative.

Angry has mentioned the bigger brands, but how about bringing more attention to the the small guys and the guys that keep the forum alive? Maybe this becomes a discussion to appreciate what the small guys do?

"The bigger handbuilt houses like seven, moots, mosaic, firefly, etc and less from the one-man shops or very small operations?"

Perhaps this is a way to appreciate the fact that you can get a hand built frame, made to measure, in less time and for less money than one thought possible given the circumstances.

Agree with your sentiment 100%.

To me, the big brands have lost appeal altogether for me. i just took delivery of a custom from a one man shop and it's something i could not get from any of the big guns. I'm happy to support the guys who are keeping the torches burning.

[avalonracing]

I would love to see more posts and interactions from builders. Since it is a small industry and builders seem to know one another, perhaps the builders on here would like to either invite or remind other builders that Paceline is exactly the audience and market who appreciates their work.

I wouldn't know about some of the best builders and their work had it not been for me joining this forum years ago when I was surfing bike stuff during a bout of the flu.

It's just a matter of time before I choose one of these great builders to make my next bike.

[Waldo62]

Dazza builds actively. I got my frame in mid-late July, and he is working on a frame for another forumite right now. Here's mine.

Originally Posted by 54ny77

i look there often....wish there was more.

anyone know what's going on with llewellyn for example?

i used to drool over his photos of various stages of build.

[William]

The Builder’s Spotlight page was just a progression from the Frame Builder’s List page that I started back in 2012 or so. It actually started earlier than that but the list page was a consolidation of an earlier thread I started. I figured it would be a good way to highlight some of the builder’s on the list. I started doing myself scouring the web gathering photos of particular builders but then I moved to contacting them directly. It takes a lot of work talking back and forth with the builders, getting copious amounts of photos, picking images to use, deciding on a good format and flow, resizing all images to attach individually per thread to archive them (I won’t do links), and then post each and every one. I enjoyed doing it and in the beginning there was a lot more participation from the member’s. In later years not so much, even with “shout out” sticky threads in the GD area directing people to the Spotlight.

As far as the builder’s themselves and their participation, it was always stated to the builder that their participation in the spotlight gave them a continuous avenue going forward to highlight their work to our members. Many never took advantage of that, some did for a little while, and a few have done a great job of utilizing it to their advantage. I never understood why some didn’t take advantage of the exposure to our member base, and for a few I know why they wouldn’t participate…but that’s another can of worms for another time. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

There are some other similar builder interview postings on other sites, haven’t seen them and don’t go there. As far as ATH, I view them as builder centric run mainly by builder’s, and I see the Paceline as customer centric run by customer’s. Different flavors and different focus on the same theme. They do their thing, we do ours.

The last Spotlight I was working on I feel bad about. I was setting it up but with a cross country move, a death in the family followed by C-19, then business getting put on the back burner, and now a new venture which takes a lot of my time it’s just been sitting. I actually have been thinking I need to at least get it completed and posted up…and now I see this thread. I’ll have to circle back to them and see if they still want to go forward, and if they do, see if they want to change anything in the interview questions. A well respected builder still wowing customers...We shall see.




W.

[charlieclick]

Wow. A lot of work, William, thank you.

I'm often drawn to the builder's area to take a peek, see if there's any new activity. More often than not, the conversation is on the David Kirk thread. I read it, am interested, and move on.

I commissioned my first custom bike With Mr Kirk a year or so ago and have it sitting in front of me right now. Dave's involvement in this forum is a large part of why I chose him as a maker.

I'd love to hear from other builders out in the world, as I find the art and craft fascinating. Kind of like when you learn about the life of an artist or what they are trying to say in their work, it opens up and is given a new and deeper meaning.

I do understand, however, that sticking your neck out on the chopping block of a public forum demands a lot of resilience from those that do it. I also understand those who prefer the work to talk for itself.

Plus, it's nice to look at well-made bikes.

[Doug Fattic]

I’m a builder/painter that posts on Paceline on occasion. However my primary business is teaching framebuilding and painting classes and not providing building and painting services to the general public (although occasionally I do a bit). I haven’t posted on the builder’s section because I am busy and don’t need the publicity. I don’t post on any social media sites like Facebook or Instagram either. I suppose I should on the builder’s site because my students turn out awesome work that show one can make a first class quality frame in class. In my case the people that really want to learn how to build frames do the research and find me. The amount of potential students I get is just the right amount for me to handle. More inquires from more publicity would just require more unproductive time answering those inquires.

But the subject I want to address is the problem of becoming a framebuilder and the reason so few start or if they do keep at it. I have a front row seat because I am the most logical place in this era to begin. My university degrees are in the field of education, my classes are usually longer than 2 weeks and I’ve been teaching framebuilding classes way longer than anyone else. And I provide them a way to improve so they can make many frames after they take a class with our charity bicycle project in Ukraine. They live on a college campus west of Kiev where there are dorms and a cafeteria and they can braze and file away. They are not only improving their skills but also making the world (or at least Ukraine) a better place.

After class some students realize that they don’t have the talent or sustaining interest to do this kind of tedious work. Besides the fact that it isn’t easy to learn how to get started, it also takes a lot of money to get properly set up so they can make frames fast enough to earn a profit. This washes out a majority. And not finding cheap enough shop space reduces more numbers. And the pay by comparison to almost any other job is very low. I can think of a number of my students that started and then gave up because other jobs paid a lot more. After finally getting all trained and set up they have to find a way to get customers and marketing can be difficult if you can’t do it yourself. Some of my students just couldn’t find enough work to keep going. Being a framebuilder requires some kind of subsidy. In my case it would be impossible for me without being able to use my wife’s medical insurance provided where she works.

One man shops are inefficient. The builder is supposed have great bedside manners (many of my students that worked great with their hands just were not people persons) and are great with finances. My students are artists, engineers and bike shop employees. I rarely get any with a business or accounting degree for a reason. A builder’s motivation isn’t money but love of bicycles and freedom. It is doubtful many have been exposed to business, marketing or accounting classes.

Type A+ business type customers and laid back artist framebuilders can be a troubling mix. The customer is likely to ask how soon can the frame be finished if I order one now? The builder trying to please and get the job is optimistic in his reply. The customer takes that date as a hard contract while the builder thinks it is just a vague suggestion. Not liking or even knowing how to deal with pushy customers is another reason builders leave the trade. They don’t understand people that aren’t like them. Why would you think I’d be working on your frame when it is a very beautiful day to ride and you already have 20 bicycles?

And then there is the problem that steel (and maybe titanium) doesn’t have a bright future. Materials are getting hard to come by as demand decreases and technology is trending in an unfavorable way.