Road Race Wheels Cerca 1986

[Hindmost]

Set the Wayback Machine Sherman:

Say I was building road race wheels for Colombian climbers to use in a professional, three week stage race in France. What spokes and lacing would I use?

Also, I could use suggestions for spokes that are still currently available.

[ultraman6970]

Back in the day everybody was doing the same thing and way simpler than now a days because there was nothing weird in the market.

32 or 36 spokes 3x, box tubular rims. Simple and worked.

By mid 90s weird stuff started showing up, including campagnolo and mavic wheelsets, but you are taking about before than that, then 3x tubular rims with 32 or 36 holes in 3x pattern.

For TT they were going to 28 or 24, but those wheels were built just to last those races, 24 and 28 spokes rims back in the day were really flimsy.

Spokes hmm... many guys were using alpina and dt, you might find union but I would not even put a wheel together with those... no idea when sapim started so no idea if they were around back then, but alpina was there already, one of the 1st ones to make kind'a aero spokes.

[likebikes]

i have a staggered set in the basement, chorus FW hubs laced to a v-section mavic rim for the rear, and a box section for the front. tubular of course!

[ultraman6970]

Racing wheels = tubulars back then...

Now a days everybody use clinchers for racing amateur, pro from looking at the wheels they go tubular but maybe that super fast TT clincher that spech created? doubt i will try that ever so cant tell you if their mythical numbers are real or not.

[jumphigher]

Dont mean to hijack the thread but.. why are modern wheels so much stronger - what has changed?

[ultraman6970]

The shape of the rims changed, that makes a lot of difference, same with the alumunim used for those rims. U go from box to a 30 mm rim that uses shorter spokes you end up with a stiffer wheel, thats why you can see stupidly low spoke wheels now a days. Do 24 spokes in a 40 year old box tubular rims and that thing will be like jelly (this is when sombody will add about tie the spokes together, well u want stiffer you had to tie them), and probably wont last too long either thats why were used only in TT races where weight was the key factor.

Even now a days some low spoke wheels you can tell the rim is moving from side to side in the curves, where is more noticeable.

Now a days with carbon rims the thing changed everything, they can play better with the layout of the carbon layers plus the height of the rim, which result in less spokes, lighter and stiffer wheel.

[m_sasso]

3 cross, Sapim Race Spokes, Silver, DB, 2.0 – 1.8 – 2.0 is what I would use currently.

In those days likely West German, Berg Union or DT Swiss with 12mm brass nipples, 3 cross.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Hindmost

Set the Wayback Machine Sherman:

Say I was building road race wheels for Colombian climbers to use in a professional, three week stage race in France. What spokes and lacing would I use?

Also, I could use suggestions for spokes that are still currently available.

‘To finish first you have to first finish’....32, 3 cross, double butted spokes in 2mm-1.8mm-2mm on tubular, box section rims, Mavic, Campagnolo, FIR, Ambrosio.. DT or Sapim spokes, brass nipps. ‘Maybe’ 28h fronts for climbing days altho weight diff way small(about 30grams)...

[Kontact]

Of the "normal" wheels of the time (rather than something like Rovals or weirder), the more cutting edge wheels might have butted spokes and be 28 fronts with 32 rears on something like GP4 rims. Matched 28/32 hubsets were not uncommon in the early '80s. I also would not be surprised to see 15 gauge straight spokes.

I built a 28/28 wheelset a few years ago with 15 gauge spokes - they've held up well.

[jumphigher]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

The shape of the rims changed, that makes a lot of difference, same with the alumunim used for those rims. U go from box to a 30 mm rim that uses shorter spokes you end up with a stiffer wheel, thats why you can see stupidly low spoke wheels now a days. Do 24 spokes in a 40 year old box tubular rims and that thing will be like jelly (this is when sombody will add about tie the spokes together, well u want stiffer you had to tie them), and probably wont last too long either thats why were used only in TT races where weight was the key factor.

Even now a days some low spoke wheels you can tell the rim is moving from side to side in the curves, where is more noticeable.

Now a days with carbon rims the thing changed everything, they can play better with the layout of the carbon layers plus the height of the rim, which result in less spokes, lighter and stiffer wheel.

Thanks for that info. I had wondered how such low spoke counts are now commonplace.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

Thanks for that info. I had wondered how such low spoke counts are now commonplace.

Low spoke counts started with alloy Roval wheels, long before carbon rims.

[Hindmost]

Originally Posted by jumphigher

Dont mean to hijack the thread but.. why are modern wheels so much stronger - what has changed?

One word: Extrusion. Another Paceliner once pointed out that prior to this, aluminum rims were essentially rolled sheet, welded into seamed tubing, then shaped into rims. The aluminum had to be soft enough for the shaping to occur. Low spoke count wheels were not an option with the resulting rims..

[choke]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Low spoke counts started with alloy Roval wheels, long before carbon rims.

Yep.....

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...0-9a4421f12d07

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/France/parts/Roval.htm

[Chris]

My first real race bike was built in ‘86. The sponsor built me a set of race wheels that was record hubs and gp4 rims. Tubies glued with Fastac.

[ultraman6970]

Technology changed a lot in the last 25 years in wheels, the thing was pretty much stuck since the beginning of times, the technology was not there yet.

Remember when the 1st aero rims came up, I believe saavedra was one of the 1st ones if not the 1st one, Argentinian made, really nice finish... got my TT wheels for the track built with those, 28h... had one problem with them, creaked like crazy in the banks. Never dare to even use them as spare wheels for points races because those rims were not going to hold and end up cracking. Never tried other aero profile rims till I was able to put my hands in campagnolo and mavic ones and from touching the rim you were able to tell the aluminum was different, but campagnolo and mavic came up with their aero profile rims maybe 5 years after than saavedra. So clearly technology and metallurgic advances helped a lot to get stupid low spoke wheels now a days.