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  #166  
Old 02-23-2021, 05:18 AM
Mark Davison Mark Davison is offline
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Why Custom steel?

Actually there are lots of cyclists who cannot get good fits on commercially available carbon fiber frames. In my experience shorter riders (under 5 feet) or riders with long legs relative to their reach may end up wanting a custom frame, and steel is an excellent material for making an affordable custom frame.

Some builders (Waterford and Rodriguez come to mind) have extensive lines of stock sizes which can accomodate many more body types than the typical S, M, L, XL sizes of commercial frames. In addition they will do full custom if necessary.

There is a quiet sizing crisis in the industry right now prodced by the collision of two forces—using 700C (or 29er) wheels on every frame, no matter how small, and using stock carbon fiber forks with fixed rake. In order to provide reasonable front center distances, small frames get slack head tube angles, and in combination with the fixed rake standard fork, the trail figures get ridiculously large. With a custom steel fork you can increase the rake to keep the trail the same. The alternative for really small frames is to design around a smaller wheel, 650B or 26”.

I think fit is far more important than saving 3 lbs of frame weight.
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  #167  
Old 02-23-2021, 06:05 AM
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bicycletricycle bicycletricycle is offline
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Also, nitto pearl stems are the most beautiful way to hold a handlebar

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Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
Fair points. My tongue was mostly in cheek. And I'd be more tolerant of a custom 1" quill that's nice and stiff anyway.. though at that point, just give me a custom threadless and let's be done with it. ha ha.
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  #168  
Old 02-23-2021, 04:59 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
Also, nitto pearl stems are the most beautiful way to hold a handlebar
I love a good Nitto pearl and I'm more or less stem agnostic and like both the quill and threadless types. But, I've fought enough battles with stuck quill stems that I would not order a new custom with one, unless I was getting something like a Rivendell Roadeo.

The best core workout (and perhaps minor hernia) of my life involved a stuck stem from a Panasonic DX-4000 that I picked up as a "bargain" and spend about two weeks freeing the stem through all manner of ungodly means.

#gooseneck
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  #169  
Old 02-23-2021, 05:02 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
One mans noodle is another mans dinner?

Facts- quill stems absorb more shock and pack easier
I can get behind the absorb more shock idea, but pack easier? I'd much rather pack a bike with a threadless stem if it is going in a breakaway type case where you will have to remove the fork anyway--which is almost always the case on a big frame.
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  #170  
Old 02-23-2021, 05:18 PM
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bicycletricycle bicycletricycle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
I can get behind the absorb more shock idea, but pack easier? I'd much rather pack a bike with a threadless stem if it is going in a breakaway type case where you will have to remove the fork anyway--which is almost always the case on a big frame.
I have done both, I like to leave the fork on but I do like to take the stem off of the bars. So I guess a quill stem with a faceplate would be my packing preference.
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  #171  
Old 02-23-2021, 07:47 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
#gooseneck
lol
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  #172  
Old 02-24-2021, 09:11 AM
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bicycletricycle bicycletricycle is offline
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One time I got a "good deal" on a giordana for a friend. It came with a seized seat post and stem........... What a f'ing nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
I love a good Nitto pearl and I'm more or less stem agnostic and like both the quill and threadless types. But, I've fought enough battles with stuck quill stems that I would not order a new custom with one, unless I was getting something like a Rivendell Roadeo.

The best core workout (and perhaps minor hernia) of my life involved a stuck stem from a Panasonic DX-4000 that I picked up as a "bargain" and spend about two weeks freeing the stem through all manner of ungodly means.

#gooseneck
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  #173  
Old 02-24-2021, 06:25 PM
Mark Davison Mark Davison is offline
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Quill stem advantages

For long term ownership of a bicycle, quill stems offer the advantage that you can reduce the drop from saddle to handlebar by simply raising the stem, or going to a Nitto Technomic stem with a longer quill. This isn’t a matter of correcting an incorrect fit, but changing the fit to accomodate an aging body.

Accomodating future changes of fit with a threadless headset requires leaving more steer tube uncut, and stacks of washers above and below the stem. The antithesis of the clean slammed washerless look.
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  #174  
Old 02-24-2021, 06:48 PM
mhespenheide mhespenheide is offline
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Or you can just change the angle of the threadless stem.
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  #175  
Old 02-26-2021, 11:20 AM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Update:

Andy Gilmour called me and told me I that my "homework" was late. My homework is to bring him my brakes and wheels with max tire size mounted. I plan on doing that soon.

Also, I need to let him know about forks in the next couple of weeks.

Regarding the geometry and design, I've narrowed it down to two options both nearly identical geometry-wise (73/73 angles, roughly the same stack and reach):

1. Non-breakaway with relatively flat TT ala Riccorsa/All City Mr. Pink (~2.7 degree slope). This would use 1" steel fork, custom stem.

2. Breakaway design with radical ~13 degree TT slope ala Rob English/ and Ritchey Ascent Breakaway. On this design, I'm thinking 1 1/8" steerer with Whiskey carbon fork.

I'll post the geometries below. I may ask biketrike to work his magic with a rendering here. I also plan on showing Andy both of these and getting his thoughts.
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  #176  
Old 02-26-2021, 11:22 AM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #177  
Old 02-26-2021, 01:45 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhespenheide View Post
Or you can just change the angle of the threadless stem.
This is the way.


But to Bici-Sonora - I think both designs look great - just have to decide on trade-offs and purpose.

I think either would work for what I'm thinking of as well.

So would that Milwaukee
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  #178  
Old 02-26-2021, 01:59 PM
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bicycletricycle bicycletricycle is offline
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somehow I can't imagine you riding a road bike with a bunch of rise in the stem.

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Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
This is the way.


But to Bici-Sonora - I think both designs look great - just have to decide on trade-offs and purpose.

I think either would work for what I'm thinking of as well.

So would that Milwaukee
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  #179  
Old 02-26-2021, 02:40 PM
JMacII JMacII is offline
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That -13 looks pretty funky in such a big bike IMHO. I’m riding a similar size frame, 25cm HT, 63TT, and I went with a 6 degree slope on TT and 6 degree stem. I like the stem and TT parallel where possible.
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  #180  
Old 02-26-2021, 03:39 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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You are really right: either would be great I think. This is the dilemma. My current thinking is to do the 2.7 levelish TT, and let my Ritchey continue its breakaway duties, perhaps with a refreshed wheelset and some different components.

Keeping the frame non-breakaway also gives us more tubing options and will let Andy do a pretty seat collar and seatstay junction.

Andy seems to be bumping me up in the queue so maybe no Milwaukee afterall. I've been so indecisive on the color that my custom will be done first.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
This is the way.


But to Bici-Sonora - I think both designs look great - just have to decide on trade-offs and purpose.

I think either would work for what I'm thinking of as well.

So would that Milwaukee

Last edited by Bici-Sonora; 02-26-2021 at 04:04 PM.
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