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  #151  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:18 AM
NHAero NHAero is offline
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That Swan is just a lovely bike. Sloped TT can look just right!
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  #152  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:52 AM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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This has a 6 degree top tube and lugs. Llewelyn I think, but they were modified. Pic with 700x35 is after I removed 15mm of the head tube. Saddle height is 79.5-80.0 but my effective top tube is a couple centimeters shorter than what your bike will have. 430mm stays. 73/73 and 75mm drop. I endorse 80mm drop with 700x35 for sure.

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
16508969_1258424364246386_5105778319695906891_n by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
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  #153  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:08 AM
mhespenheide mhespenheide is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
I could ride it without even changing the saddle height—I used to run 81cm saddle but now run closer to 80cm.
Ha! Same here -- 80 to 80.5cm saddle height, 59.5cm from the tip of a flite to the handlebars.
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  #154  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:04 AM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
This has a 6 degree top tube and lugs. Llewelyn I think, but they were modified. Pic with 700x35 is after I removed 15mm of the head tube. Saddle height is 79.5-80.0 but my effective top tube is a couple centimeters shorter than what your bike will have. 430mm stays. 73/73 and 75mm drop. I endorse 80mm drop with 700x35 for sure.
What a beauty Justin. Your bike (minus the discs and bigger tire clearance) is really close to the geos I'm looking at. If I forego the breakaway feature, I could do bi-lam--or those gorgeous Llewelyns!

This is turning into a fine custom big boy bike thread and I like it. So much great information gleaned from others builds and experiences.
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  #155  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:05 AM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhespenheide View Post
Ha! Same here -- 80 to 80.5cm saddle height, 59.5cm from the tip of a flite to the handlebars.
We just need to standardize our pedal systems and we could be mid-ride bike swap buddies.
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  #156  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:25 AM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
What a beauty Justin. Your bike (minus the discs and bigger tire clearance) is really close to the geos I'm looking at. If I forego the breakaway feature, I could do bi-lam--or those gorgeous Llewelyns!

This is turning into a fine custom big boy bike thread and I like it. So much great information gleaned from others builds and experiences.
Have to agree. I've learned a ton here..
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  #157  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:21 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
This has a 6 degree top tube and lugs. Llewelyn I think, but they were modified. Pic with 700x35 is after I removed 15mm of the head tube. Saddle height is 79.5-80.0 but my effective top tube is a couple centimeters shorter than what your bike will have. 430mm stays. 73/73 and 75mm drop. I endorse 80mm drop with 700x35 for sure.
I'm curious about the 15mm headtube chop--first time I've seen someone do that! What was the headtube length before/after? and your reasoning for getting out the (saw?)? I'm assuming you wanted more saddle/bar drop--but perhaps it was a handling thing?
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  #158  
Old 02-22-2021, 03:11 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
I'm curious about the 15mm headtube chop--first time I've seen someone do that! What was the headtube length before/after? and your reasoning for getting out the (saw?)? I'm assuming you wanted more saddle/bar drop--but perhaps it was a handling thing?
Not a handling thing. John added a 2cm extension to the upper head tube lug. He does this on many of his frames, perhaps most. We didn't discuss this specifically (there are many ways to put the bars in the same spot and the TT angle was fixed because of the lugs). The Ritchey fork steerer is 300mm and wouldn't have worked with the Ritchey headset with the original head tube length. I then cut the head tube of the original steel fork to 300mm and installed the Ritchey race that came with the Ritchey headset (carbon fork has integrated carbon race) so that either fork is now plug and play with the same stem and spacers (8mm worth, I think).

I used two stainless pipe clamps on the head tube to make a guide and removed it with a new hacksaw blade. Then had a shop face it and press in the new headset cups. To be honest, I did not like the extension aesthetically and I prefer the stem angle and HT as it is now.

The CAD shows the original HT length to be 239mm (don't laugh at me, there is enough titanium around many of my vertebrae to make a couple stems ) but is now 15mm or so shorter.

For reference, the top of saddle to top of bar near the stem is a difference of 3-4cm, I think.

Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr
Untitled by ColonelJLloyd, on Flickr

Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 02-22-2021 at 03:15 PM.
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  #159  
Old 02-22-2021, 03:59 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Davison View Post
Same geometry with wheelbase, fork length measured parallel to the steering axis, and saddle tip to handlebars to facilitate comparison.
This is the part where at 11 pages and 150+ posts in, we discover that the geometry we have agonized over is just about the same as a '73 Paramount. I find this hilarious.

It goes to show you, road bicycle geometry is a mature technology.
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  #160  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:07 PM
Bici-Sonora Bici-Sonora is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post

The CAD shows the original HT length to be 239mm (don't laugh at me, there is enough titanium around many of my vertebrae to make a couple stems ) but is now 15mm or so shorter.

For reference, the top of saddle to top of bar near the stem is a difference of 3-4cm, I think.
No tall headtube judgement passed here--the HT on my MAP 228mm!

I'm kind of in awe that you did this to your custom with the hose clamps and painters tape and ye' ole hack saw blade. I agree with you, the bike looks better without the HT extension. And, I like the ability to change forks: steel fork (evening wear) and the carbon fork (speedo). You are steering (pun intended) me back toward the 1.125" steerer.
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  #161  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:06 PM
ColonelJLloyd ColonelJLloyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
I'm kind of in awe that you did this to your custom with the hose clamps and painters tape and ye' ole hack saw blade.
I initially thought I'd send it back to Fitz to do it, but I mocked it up and decided I was not dealing with rocket surgery here and it was going to be faced anyway. In the end my cut was very square and everything is ship shape.

I understand the attraction to a 1" steerer, but I see no compelling evidence that the preference is anything more than princess and the pea territory. Yes, if you have a steel fork made ask for the lightest weight steer tube available (I don't believe there are many options available), but I'm convinced this is not the tail that should wag the design dog. Leaving open the option for a carbon fork down the road is an attractive proposition to me, but there are not a lot of great options. The Whisky 7 is a very good functional choice if not the most attractive (wish the blades curved and tapered more). The weight difference between steel and carbon forks, and thus feel of the front end, is not as drastic with a rim brake bike as it is for a disc rig like mine.

I'm good with 1" threadless, but I am over threaded steerers aside from putting around. I appreciate the stability threadless gives me on fast descents, hard braking, and rough stuff on frames the size I ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bici-Sonora View Post
It goes to show you, road bicycle geometry is a mature technology.
I'm sure we have tweaked and refined it in some semi-meaningful ways, but it still strikes me that we can find and ride bikes that are a hundred years old and, besides the shifting tech, are really not that different than a bikes being built today. It didn't take that long into the bicycle's lineage to settle on what worked well/best.

Last edited by ColonelJLloyd; 02-22-2021 at 07:10 PM.
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  #162  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:16 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
I'm good with 1" threadless, but I am over threaded steerers aside from putting around. I appreciate the stability threadless gives me on fast descents, hard braking, and rough stuff on frames the size I ride.
A thousand times yes.

Quill stems are fine on period pieces and getting to experience what it was like BITD - but if I'm paying real money for a new frame, no way in heck will it have a noodly quill on it... There are literally zero benefits to a quill stem aside from correcting fit mistakes that were made in the bikes initial design. Change my mind.
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  #163  
Old 02-22-2021, 07:39 PM
bicycletricycle's Avatar
bicycletricycle bicycletricycle is offline
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One mans noodle is another mans dinner?

Seriously though, the idea of spending thousands on a custom steel boat anchor is ridiculous to almost all cyclists outside the walls of this little corner of the internet.

How can we, fans of 1” steerer tubes, look down upon quill stems?

Facts- quill stems absorb more shock and pack easier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
A thousand times yes.

Quill stems are fine on period pieces and getting to experience what it was like BITD - but if I'm paying real money for a new frame, no way in heck will it have a noodly quill on it... There are literally zero benefits to a quill stem aside from correcting fit mistakes that were made in the bikes initial design. Change my mind.
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  #164  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:02 PM
dbh dbh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
One mans noodle is another mans dinner?

Seriously though, the idea of spending thousands on a custom steel boat anchor is ridiculous to almost all cyclists outside the walls of this little corner of the internet.

How can we, fans of 1” steerer tubes, look down upon quill stems?

Facts- quill stems absorb more shock and pack easier
And look better too...
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  #165  
Old 02-22-2021, 10:20 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicycletricycle View Post
One mans noodle is another mans dinner?

Seriously though, the idea of spending thousands on a custom steel boat anchor is ridiculous to almost all cyclists outside the walls of this little corner of the internet.

How can we, fans of 1” steerer tubes, look down upon quill stems?

Facts- quill stems absorb more shock and pack easier
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbh View Post
And look better too...
Fair points. My tongue was mostly in cheek. And I'd be more tolerant of a custom 1" quill that's nice and stiff anyway.. though at that point, just give me a custom threadless and let's be done with it. ha ha.
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