OT: Cost of Living and new cars/trucks...

[Tickdoc]

has anyone here enjoyed a cost of living increase concurrent with the cost of new cars/trucks equivalent?

Just curious.

and check out this new electric Porsche "wagon" while you ponder this question.

$92k starting price, but I bet they sticker soft loaded around $130k



I watched scarface last night, and was watching Mr. Montana purchase a then new 928 for $45,000.00. Maybe this is equivalent after all?

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

has anyone here enjoyed a cost of living increase concurrent with the cost of new cars/trucks equivalent?...

I think that the target market for those vehicles are at the far edge of the income distribution bell curve, and don't really worry about things like "price" when shopping for cars....

Oh, and they have benefited from a cost of living increase that matches the prices on the vehicles mentioned.....see the "OT: Ray, how's your Bitcoin investment going?" thread.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

I watched scarface last night, and was watching Mr. Montana purchase a then new 928 for $45,000.00. Maybe this is equivalent after all?

Checks out: $45K in 1983 is $120k today

https://www.officialdata.org/us/infl...3?amount=45000

There are a LOT of other more important items than a luxury german electric wagon that have exploded in cost over the years - university tuition, health insurance, etc. etc.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Checks out: $45K in 1983 is $120k today

https://www.officialdata.org/us/infl...3?amount=45000

There are a LOT of other more important items than a luxury german electric wagon that have exploded in cost over the years - state university tuition, health insurance, etc. etc.

So maybe it's just me whining then? I feel better now. Need to just get over it.

[ltwtsculler91]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

So maybe it's just me whining then? I feel better now. Need to just get over it.

It feels like cars got relatively cheaper for a while (kind of like bikes) and are now going back up at least in sticker price.

Cheap leases keep the metal moving for most luxury brands right now since they're subsidized by the factory in most cases. I just bought a new Volvo wagon, and was amazed by what the stickers have pushed to on every car I looked at, but the out the door cost was only a touch more than I expected..

I figured you need to spend around $40k MSRP to get into a premium car/crossover to replace my old S60, but in reality that MSRP was closer to 50k now which is nuts. Granted out the door the price paid was closer to that $40k.

It was crazy to me that when I started looking and considering a Golf wagon that those were near $40k....

[robin3mj]

72-month (and even 84!) terms on new car loans have a lot to do with this. Dealers are smart enough to sell people on avg monthly payment, and most people are not attuned enough to do the all-in math.

[joosttx]

10% of $10,000,000

is a lot better than

10% $10,000

[prototoast]

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA01

There's been a little bit of an increase over the past 10 years, but overall prices have remained essentially flat over the past 25 years. But people are spending more on cars to get better cars: https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2020-09-01...lley-Blue-Book

You can read about how BLS adjusts for quality here: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/quality-adju...w-vehicles.pdf

With interest rates at historically low levels, people are able to buy more expensive cars than they could before for the same monthly payments.

So I guess what I'm saying, in summary, is that it's not that cars have gotten more expensive, it's that you want to buy a more expensive car.

[BobbyJones]

Yet there are many "boring" vehicles that can be considered a downright bargain by the same metrics.

Same with bikes.

But what fun is that?

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by prototoast

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUSR0000SETA01

There's been a little bit of an increase over the past 10 years, but overall prices have remained essentially flat over the past 25 years. But people are spending more on cars to get better cars: https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2020-09-01...lley-Blue-Book

You can read about how BLS adjusts for quality here: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/quality-adju...w-vehicles.pdf

With interest rates at historically low levels, people are able to buy more expensive cars than they could before for the same monthly payments.

So I guess what I'm saying, in summary, is that it's not that cars have gotten more expensive, it's that you want to buy a more expensive car.

Reliability has definitely changed for the better. I remember when I was young it was so common to see someone on the side of the road with either a blown tire or blown radiator hose. Hardly ever see that now.

[Ozz]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Reliability has definitely changed for the better. I remember when I was young it was so common to see someone on the side of the road with either a blown tire or blown radiator hose. Hardly ever see that now.

Or at 100,000 miles it was time for a new car......

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by robin3mj

72-month (and even 84!) terms on new car loans have a lot to do with this. Dealers are smart enough to sell people on avg monthly payment, and most people are not attuned enough to do the all-in math.

That and money is cheap now. If you’re going to drive a car for 8-9 years, then maybe a 2% 6 year loan isn’t too bad an idea. More people have more money, but in the flip side, more people have less money - does that make sense? Wealth gaps? 20 years ago, it seemed to me pickups were almost always no frills, workhorse kind of vehicles, Ford Rangers, whatever the small Toyota was, but now almost every pickup I see, except for obvious company trucks, looks pretty tricked out. I just checked and a mid range Ford F-150 starts at 45k, with the high end starting at 79k. Similar to the other ubiquitous car around me, the Audi Q5. I was in my 40’s before I spent more than 30k on a car.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by Ozz

Or at 100,000 miles it was time for a new car......

This might be the biggest thing - since about the mid-2000's cars regularly last 150k+ miles with even the smallest amount of maintenance, and 200K easily with more extensive maintenance on more reliable models.

That's easily another 3 years of ownership for the average driver, and now fully 25% of cars still on the road are old enough to get their license....
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/25pe...20IHS%20Markit.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by robin3mj

72-month (and even 84!) terms on new car loans have a lot to do with this. Dealers are smart enough to sell people on avg monthly payment, and most people are not attuned enough to do the all-in math.

I generally buy Audis at about 5 years and 100K miles. They're far enough down the depreciation curve that it doesn't hurt so much, and many of the initial issues are worked out. One of my least reliable cars was one that I bought with 40K miles. 100K seems to be better. Of course you need to stay on top of the "consumables."

[pasadena]

Lexus LS 1990-$40k 2021-$110k
Accord 1990-$17k 2021 -$37k
You get more tech and safety for your money, but it's still a lot of money.
I remember my dad bought a new Civic in 1990 for $6k

People can't afford to buy as much, especially millenials- the fastest growing lease group.
Even with historic low interest rates, auto leases are still growing.

Well over 50% of all luxury brands are leased, not bought. Some brands are well into 60-70% leased, not bought. That is a growing trend as car prices keep going up.
Lease costs have gone up too, doubling up in the last few yrs. Easy profits for dealers.
This also has driven up the used market.

With the increased cost of electronics and focus on 3-5yr leases, you already see the manufacturing shift in the luxury models. Designed to last for the lease period, and upside-down afterwards to repair.

I would be interested in the % of pu truck buyers that lease. That is the fattest profit, and truck prices are insanely high while being bestsellers.
I think most of those buyers are financed, but no idea.

F-150
1990 $10,366 - $14,933
2021 $28,940 - $74,250