Weigle, Wojcik, IF, Serotta, Fat City: End of an Era?

[carlucci1106]

Originally Posted by Alexi

As a 40 something those brands don’t have the interest for me as say someone in their 50s or 60s. There are builders in my cohort that are much more interesting to me. Chapman, Horse, Geekhouse, Tomii, Royal H, Firefly, etc.

Alexi, funny! I was the last person to comment on your IF Sparkly Green MTB! Well, aside from that MTB. I haven't seen a road bike in a long while. Should have said that. But you catch my drift. The frequency of seeing them on forums/bike media is waning.

As to this comment. Yeah, I believe Chapman is in the Providence area where I grew up... Isn't he the guy who builds vintage-looking bikes with moustache bars, shellacked cloth tape, etc, or am I thinking of someone else?

Is there a reason in particular that mid-century styling is more appealing than 70/80s Italian-inspired bike pron?

[robin3mj]

Originally Posted by carlucci1106

Alexi, funny! I was the last person to comment on your IF Sparkly Green MTB! Well, aside from that MTB. I haven't seen a road bike in a long while. Should have said that. But you catch my drift. The frequency of seeing them on forums/bike media is waning.

As to this comment. Yeah, I believe Chapman is in the Providence area where I grew up... Isn't he the guy who builds vintage-looking bikes with moustache bars, shellacked cloth tape, etc, or am I thinking of someone else?

Is there a reason in particular that mid-century styling is more appealing than 70/80s Italian-inspired bike pron?

How bout a cross bike? Really glad I snuck this one under the wire before their resent iteration began changing again.

[PacNW2Ford]

Even though I have always been West Coast, I have a string of Fat City Yo Eddy > IF Steel Deluxe > Firefly with an Igleheart "all-rounder 650b" for good measure. Just wanted to wish "Igle" a happy retirement and remember Max Kullaway of Seven and 333fab.

[fmradio516]

Originally Posted by carlucci1106

As to this comment. Yeah, I believe Chapman is in the Providence area where I grew up... Isn't he the guy who builds vintage-looking bikes with moustache bars, shellacked cloth tape, etc, or am I thinking of someone else?

Yep thats him. He puts in crazy detail work into his builds. I believe his shop is near Cranston.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by robin3mj

How bout a cross bike? Really glad I snuck this one under the wire before their resent iteration began changing again.

Love that bike and my brain keeps wanting to see it with ee sweetings cranks to balance the ti stem and post.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by Alexi

As a 40 something those brands don’t have the interest for me as say someone in their 50s or 60s. There are builders in my cohort that are much more interesting to me. Chapman, Horse, Geekhouse, Tomii, Royal H, Firefly, etc.

I'm curious what it is about these builders that grabs you. Firefly needs no explanation - to me they've been the prime innovator in titanium and their range of product is very wide as well. I have one, not built for me, which I prize.

Chapman and Tomii make bikes that I admire for their detail, and Tomii particularly for the finishes. But I don't feel drawn to want one as a daily rider. I follow Chapman on IG because his little videos of how he makes custom bits are always worth seeing.

Horse, Royal H, Geekhouse - what draws you with these builders?

I'm a native Bostonian, so I get appreciating the New England base of these (Horse is Brooklyn?). Yet if I were looking for custom steel, none of these builders would take preference over getting a frame from Dave Kirk or Rob English (who is in my mind the leading innovator working in steel.)

Finally, I should say my bias in aesthetics is simple. When I ordered my Bob Jackson in 1972, I could have had any number of bikes with more ornate lugwork (Hetchins anyone?) but the long spearpoint Prugnat lugs are what grabbed me, along with the diamond reinforcements on the bridges. Having had that frameset repainted three times now, I knew when I got my next forever bike it wanted the most simple finish (plus I live in salt air) so I chose Bingham because the level of craftsmanship is the art of his bikes. No decals, no anodizing, no paint - just some etching and polished bits. I had a stainless Anderson (another virtuoso) but on MV it did have minor corrosion, so an Onesto wasn't going to work for me, hadda be titanium.

[belopsky]

Perhaps wording some absolutist statements in this thread differently than simply basing them on "age" would help explain what one actually means by what builders/appeal to them.

Originally Posted by NHAero

I'm curious what it is about these builders that grabs you. Firefly needs no explanation - to me they've been the prime innovator in titanium and their range of product is very wide as well. I have one, not built for me, which I prize.

Chapman and Tomii make bikes that I admire for their detail, and Tomii particularly for the finishes. But I don't feel drawn to want one as a daily rider. I follow Chapman on IG because his little videos of how he makes custom bits are always worth seeing.

Horse, Royal H, Geekhouse - what draws you with these builders?

I'm a native Bostonian, so I get appreciating the New England base of these (Horse is Brooklyn?). Yet if I were looking for custom steel, none of these builders would take preference over getting a frame from Dave Kirk or Rob English (who is in my mind the leading innovator working in steel.)

Finally, I should say my bias in aesthetics is simple. When I ordered my Bob Jackson in 1972, I could have had any number of bikes with more ornate lugwork (Hetchins anyone?) but the long spearpoint Prugnat lugs are what grabbed me, along with the diamond reinforcements on the bridges. Having had that frameset repainted three times now, I knew when I got my next forever bike it wanted the most simple finish (plus I live in salt air) so I chose Bingham because the level of craftsmanship is the art of his bikes. No decals, no anodizing, no paint - just some etching and polished bits. I had a stainless Anderson (another virtuoso) but on MV it did have minor corrosion, so an Onesto wasn't going to work for me, hadda be titanium.

Exactly like this

[buddybikes]

Geekhouse closed shop few years ago. They were just "cool" made lot of cross bikes. I had and sold one, kind wish I kept it, was flaming pink

Honestly the heritage of FF is reason went to them going back before Chance, Tanguy cycles, which is where Chris took over his shop. I learned to make a frame at Tanguy in 1976 using good old geometry from high school, slide rules sin/cosin tables

[Alexi]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I'm curious what it is about these builders that grabs you. Firefly needs no explanation - to me they've been the prime innovator in titanium and their range of product is very wide as well. I have one, not built for me, which I prize.

Chapman and Tomii make bikes that I admire for their detail, and Tomii particularly for the finishes. But I don't feel drawn to want one as a daily rider. I follow Chapman on IG because his little videos of how he makes custom bits are always worth seeing.

Well, I respect the Kirk and et all. But they’re a bit “dad bikes” they’re the bikes that my friends dads listed over and purchased. I respect The Stones, but I’d rather listen to Yo La Tango. And honestly the hand wringing over “who’s gonna replace these master craftsman!” is a bit silly. There are plenty of builders out there making amazing bikes.

Horse, Royal H, Geekhouse - what draws you with these builders?.

I didn’t grow up in the 1970s, my earliest bike hero’s were Lemond and Grewal, my first race bike was a Kestrel Sci, I raced mountain bikes and cyclocross. I lived thru the fixie boom, and the Randossance. These builders have the same shared experiences and many of the same aesthetics that can be traced to that.

I'm a native Bostonian, so I get appreciating the New England base of these (Horse is Brooklyn?). Yet if I were looking for custom steel, none of these builders would take preference over getting a frame from Dave Kirk or Rob English (who is in my mind the leading innovator working in steel.).

I can respect Rob English’s work, but god his design choices are a straight turnoff for me. His bike’s regular end up in the anti-porn threads for a reason

Finally, I should say my bias in aesthetics is simple. When I ordered my Bob Jackson in 1972, I could have had any number of bikes with more ornate lugwork (Hetchins anyone?) but the long spearpoint Prugnat lugs are what grabbed me, along with the diamond reinforcements on the bridges. Having had that frameset repainted three times now, I knew when I got my next forever bike it wanted the most simple finish (plus I live in salt air) so I chose Bingham because the level of craftsmanship is the art of his bikes. No decals, no anodizing, no paint - just some etching and polished bits. I had a stainless Anderson (another virtuoso) but on MV it did have minor corrosion, so an Onesto wasn't going to work for me, hadda be titanium.

I’ve owned a number of Jacksons, one that I raced cross on actually might be coming back my way to rebuild for my son. I used to collect British bikes, I still own a few. Club and path racers are way more my style than an Italian style racer, you can stick fatter tyres on them, throw a Caradice on, and go on adventures. But to me Jacksons are the opposite of Hetchins or (some) Mercians, they are workmanlike bikes. And definitely the polar opposite of Rob English.

[holliscx]

Timberland was the antithesis of Somerville IF. Firefly saw the writing on the wall fortunately. GS was only in it for his personal collection of garage queens.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Alexi

Well, I respect the Kirk and et all. But they’re a bit “dad bikes” they’re the bikes that my friends dads listed over and purchased. I respect The Stones, but I’d rather listen to Yo La Tango. And honestly the hand wringing over “who’s gonna replace these master craftsman!” is a bit silly. There are plenty of builders out there making amazing bikes.

I didn’t grow up in the 1970s, my earliest bike hero’s were Lemond and Grewal, my first race bike was a Kestrel Sci, I raced mountain bikes and cyclocross. I lived thru the fixie boom, and the Randossance. These builders have the same shared experiences and many of the same aesthetics that can be traced to that.

I can respect Rob English’s work, but god his design choices are a straight turnoff for me. His bike’s regular end up in the anti-porn threads for a reason

You are of course permitted to like what you like but the factual and historical inaccuracies here are stunning..

Are you aware that D Kirk built bikes for Grewal? Or that Dario was cutting his teeth and building race bikes for contemporaries of LeMond and Grewal, plus an entire generation of professionals that came after? Does it register for you that Kirk and Pegoretti work with Reynolds and Columbus to get tubes designed to their spec to achieve the ride characteristics they’re after in their designs? Do you get the precision that Bingham builds with and the perfection he achieves not just in stacking dimes but in executing on design choices and tubing selection? Or the professionalism of all three?

As for Rob, you do get that he’s building for clients, right? Check his galleries.. There are plenty of aesthetically perfect builds in there, including the ones he’s done for himself. He’s also one of the nicest and most genuine people you’re likely to meet.

These folks are master craftsmen. They aren’t (weren’t) just taking a tubeset off the shelf and joining them on a production line. Nor are they gilding lilies with fancy paint and accessories. They’ve moved things forward and innovated. The fact that some folks 10-20 years older than you and me happen to appreciate their work doesn’t change any of that. And none of them are (were) resting on their laurels or turning out the same everything year after year. They aren’t The Stones or The Eagles. They’re Radiohead. And if you don’t get the difference.. well, your loss I guess.

I dunno. I can’t stand Yo La Tengo, so maybe it’s just best we hang out with our own earbuds in. There’s room here for that.

V

[BobbyJones]

FWIW- I’ve never seen a Tomii IRL, but of all of the small builders mentioned, Chapman has been the only visual standout on appearance alone.

His bikes actually look like jewelry / art pieces with amazing attention to detail.

The others on that list…not so much. Maybe that’s got something to do with it.

[mlc]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

They aren’t The Stones or The Eagles. They’re Radiohead. And if you don’t get the difference.. well, your loss I guess.

V

I myself do happen to be partial to Yo La Tango, but man this is an all time forum quote. In terms of content, as someone who likely finds themself on the younger end of the forum, if I could have any bike right now, I'd be torn between something from what I perceive as the "old guard" of Sachs and Kirk, or something from what seems to be referenced here as the newer bunch–a Sklar or Chapman or Bishop. I'll give it to you that Kirk may be Radiohead, but in that case, maybe I'll say that a Sklar or Mone is more like Big Thief. New, but undeniably doing something beautiful as well.

[belopsky]

Originally Posted by Alexi

Well, I respect the Kirk and et all. But they’re a bit “dad bikes” they’re the bikes that my friends dads listed over and purchased. I respect The Stones, but I’d rather listen to Yo La Tango. And honestly the hand wringing over “who’s gonna replace these master craftsman!” is a bit silly. There are plenty of builders out there making amazing bikes.

Putting things in quotes such as "dad bikes" doesn't remove intent in what is being written.

[rallizes]

Originally Posted by belopsky

Putting things in quotes such as "dad bikes" doesn't remove intent in what is being written.

not sure what the issue is

he goes on to say they are bikes his friends' dads lusted over

it's his experience

anyway, realistically are young people interested in RS bikes these days?

surely no