Contemporary frames without contemporary "improvements"

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by ravdg316

Parlee’s Z1-Z3: there are a few on eBay right now with external routing, threaded BBs and standard 1 1/8 headsets.

+1 on top of BT's -- so that's like +3 total..

[zennmotion]

Cyfac's carbon models have a BSC threaded BB as an option, as well as mechanical cable routing as an option.
http://cyfac.fr/absolu-v2/ Absolu has the integrated seatpost
But
http://cyfac.fr/carbonframes#gothica-cs The Gothica model does not- "cyclosportif" geometry which may be more what you really want anyway

[Cloozoe]

Lots of great input; by all means keep it coming.

You guys are terrific.

[d_douglas]

The Colnago C50 frameset and King HS I have for sale in the classifieds? Seriously, C50s are pretty standard except for the weird seatpost size, but I think lots of people use a $20 shim (or a Schlitz can) and a 27.2mm seatpost.

[Shoeman]

Find yourself a minty Look 585 origin or ultra you won't be disappointed! It was my first plastic bike and I love it!

[Elefantino]

Going to amen the 585. If you can find a good example, it will be a lifer.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by Cloozoe

As mentioned in another post or two, after a lifetime of riding classic steel frames, I'd like to dip a toe into the twenty-first century, out of curiosity if nothing else. Carbon specifically.

However, I'd like to avoid such modern "advances" as press-fit BBs, ISPs, one-piece stem/bar assemblies, proprietary parts, internal cable routing, etc.

I thought it would be interesting and perhaps helpful to other moss-backs like me to put together a list (seems as though it might be a very short list) of frames made from, say 2000-present that eschew such features.

Please do me the courtesy of assuming that I've read extensively on the subject and am not looking for an argument along the lines of "ISPs are great and you can always cut them down to the top tube and substitute a conventional seat tube" or "Press-fit bottom brackets work fine as long as you use loc-tite" or "The aerodynamic benefits of internal cable routing are indisputable".

Or just assume I'm an incorrigible idiot; all the same to me, as long as the thread doesn't degenerate into such pointless wrangling.

Anybody care to contribute?

Is there anything special about carbon that 21st century custom titanium wouldn't give you, besides the essential carbon content?

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by palincss

Is there anything special about carbon that 21st century custom titanium wouldn't give you, besides the essential carbon content?

This is a good point. Given that we now know that aero benefits are much more important than a few hundred grams of overall bike weight, and that aero benefits from wheels and helmet/clothes are more important than from a frame - plus that tires make a big different ---- what's the point in going with a light, round-tubed carbon bike at this point unless you are building a dedicated hill-climb bike for the fells? Modern steel is so good, unless you need that last 5% (or less) of performance you might get, is it worth the hassle to go carbon? Carbon looks cool of course. Just saying that going carbon for weight isn't getting you all that much weight savings when comparing a Look 585 or C40/50 to a modern Spirit OS road frame, and obviously isn't doing anything for aero gains.

Just my $0.02 - and I'm biased...and getting older and grouchier by the day...

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by palincss

Is there anything special about carbon that 21st century custom titanium wouldn't give you, besides the essential carbon content?

Originally Posted by Clean39T

This is a good point. // what's the point in going with a light, round-tubed carbon bike at this point unless you are building a dedicated hill-climb bike for the fells?

Maybe just to try it out and see for yourself (himself)? We've all had twenty+ years of marketing telling us how awesome carbon is; I think it's pretty natural to want to try it.


Having ridden my own Felt F1PR for a year or more (after tweaking it how I wanted it, etc.), I can now say that my next superbike might well be custom modern steel. But if I hadn't tried it, I'd always be wondering about the fabled carbon ride... Even though carbon has massively more variability than steel, Ti, or aluminum. I'd still like to try a 585, and -- for the sake of argument -- should probably try a modern Tarmac. The shortish time on the Felt has at least taught me that carbon isn't a magic bullet, but everyone deserves the chance to see what the fuss is about.

[Cloozoe]

To Palin & Clean: as mhespenheide said, it really just comes down to the fact that the vast majority of the bikes ridden today are carbon and I'm curious to experience what they're like, for better or worse. No more, no less. I don't doubt that it might be that I could wind up preferring modern steel or titanium or even my '88 Masi GC, and I understand bike physics well enough to harbor no illusions that a few pounds of weight reduction under my 180 lbs will result in my sprinting like Kittel or climbing like Quintana.

But when the entire world does things one way and I do things another it seems almost arrogant not to at least check it out. Then I'll know and if I don't like it I'll sell it and go back to metal. But my curiosity will be assuaged and I'll have a basis for a first hand opinion unlike my friend Martin who feels no compunction about sounding off about things he's never experienced based on something some equally unqualified knucklehead said.

[weisan]

m-h-p-h-de pal gets it.

Clooze pal, the time to act is now.

[gasman]

Another vote to look at Calfee

My Tetra Pro is still going strong after 15 years and it checks all your boxes.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by palincss

Is there anything special about carbon that 21st century custom titanium wouldn't give you, besides the essential carbon content?

Carbon bike can be much lighter, carbon bikes can be molded into more aerodynamic shapes, and carbon bikes can be customized very easily to adjust ride characteristics. While people often think of carbon fiber bikes as being more fragile than steel or titanium, a carbon fiber bike that weighed as much as a steel or titanium bike would be incredibly strong. It is only that so many manufacturers sacrifice strength in areas not stressed by normal riding that the bikes can sometimes seem so fragile if they're crashed/bumped/dropped.

Which is not to say anything bad about titanium bikes. There are great titanium bikes out there. A high end titanium bike will be better than a low end carbon fiber bike for most people. A high end carbon fiber bike will be better than a low end titanium bike for most people. There are great bikes in both materials (and other materials), and even ignoring weight and price, it's silly to think that titanium strictly dominates carbon fiber.

[saab2000]

I see a lot of skepticism in some posts regarding carbon. The first time I rode a carbon bike was in 1989, on a Look KG96. It was a revelation for me and I loved it. I've been a Look fan ever since. Also, I smirk at comments that imply that carbon may just randomly fail. It's been in regular use in pro cycling for 35 years, so it's a pretty proven technology.

There aren't a ton of options on the used market for what the OP is looking for but there are some. And Calfee and Parlee, and others, would probably build what he's looking for.

I have metal bikes too but I love my carbon bikes. I don't know why some folks consider it disposable or unsafe or unproven or unreliable. It's none of those things.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Maybe just to try it out and see for yourself (himself)? We've all had twenty+ years of marketing telling us how awesome carbon is; I think it's pretty natural to want to try it.


Having ridden my own Felt F1PR for a year or more (after tweaking it how I wanted it, etc.), I can now say that my next superbike might well be custom modern steel. But if I hadn't tried it, I'd always be wondering about the fabled carbon ride... Even though carbon has massively more variability than steel, Ti, or aluminum. I'd still like to try a 585, and -- for the sake of argument -- should probably try a modern Tarmac. The shortish time on the Felt has at least taught me that carbon isn't a magic bullet, but everyone deserves the chance to see what the fuss is about.

Very good point there Mark - if I hadn't tried all the carbon that I did, I wouldn't have the opinions that I shared above...

So, my new recommendation is - find something that fits that has depreciated a fair amount and give it a whirl - worst that happens is you lose a couple hundred in transaction costs - best that happens is you love it and keep it - and somewhere in the middle, you figure out that you like carbon but want a more custom experience, so you call up Crumpton or Parlee and git'r dun - or find out it isn't all that and you go for some modern steel.

Bikes are fun.

Originally Posted by Cloozoe

But when the entire world does things one way and I do things another it seems almost arrogant not to at least check it out. Then I'll know and if I don't like it I'll sell it and go back to metal. But my curiosity must be assuaged.

You are wise in the ways of the world. Go for it!