New Rene Herse Nivex Derailleur

[crownjewelwl]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

Has anyone seen the shifter that drives this derailleur? I've not seen it yet.

dave

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop...x-shift_lever/

[Mark McM]

Although they offer an "indexed" lever, this is really a friction system. For reliable indexing, there needs to be a mechanism to ensure a constant chain gap (gap between sprockets and jockey pulley), and this derailleur has no such mechanism. So even though the shifter has "soft" detents, the user will likely have to use the old technique of moving the lever a little to far so the chain grabs the next sprocket, and then back again to center the derailleur. It also appears that the the outer cage plate has a rigid extension behind the jockey pulley - this probably contacts the chain and helps to push it to the next sprocket, much like a front derailleur cage plate.

[tomato coupe]

I think he's been reading audiophile brochures:

It’s about the riding experience. Modern derailleurs are digital: You push a button, and they shift. Many work very well, but we love analog experiences: We enjoy a direct connection from lever to derailleur, to feel the chain mesh with the cog.

The indexing is designed to be softer than on most other shift levers. The indexing serves as a guide for the lever, but it doesn’t take away the analog feel.

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

I think he's been reading audiophile brochures:

Ya, qualia talk is difficult, probably should be left at something like "feels nice to use if you like this type of thing", just like a lot of audiophile talk could be left at "sounds good if you like tube amps". But curious people want to know more and if the core value of your product is not easily measurable than you are stuck with that kind of language.

I think this is a big part of why products tend to follow certain tracks in development. Qualities that are easy to describe / prove / experience are prioritized over more subtle ones. This makes sense, it is easy to prove the new model is lighter or bigger but whether is handles / sounds / feels better will always be up for debate.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by Toddtwenty2

I'd love to try one.

It's a tough sell to commission an entire frameset around a new and obscure rear derailleur, but I am curious and would love to feel what it is like to shift one.

Perhaps Jan will commission a test-fleet of his anniversary bicycle that we can try out during a Seattle visit.

I'd think a used steel frameset with the traditional derailleur hanger removed + tab added would suit, wouldn't it? Unless there is some sort of extra requirement for chainstay strength.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Although they offer an "indexed" lever, this is really a friction system. For reliable indexing, there needs to be a mechanism to ensure a constant chain gap (gap between sprockets and jockey pulley), and this derailleur has no such mechanism. So even though the shifter has "soft" detents, the user will likely have to use the old technique of moving the lever a little to far so the chain grabs the next sprocket, and then back again to center the derailleur. It also appears that the the outer cage plate has a rigid extension behind the jockey pulley - this probably contacts the chain and helps to push it to the next sprocket, much like a front derailleur cage plate.

I was under the impression that the swing arc of the links (much like with the old Allvit's "knee action" swing) better follows the slightly concave and conical profile of typical cassettes or freewheels (I believe Jan uses a 7s Dura-Ace Uniglide freewheel with this new derailer on his personal race bike).

I found "soft" indexing detents to be a constant shifting nightmare compared to pure friction (as evidenced by certain Suntour Accu-7 levers that had an "F7" mode between the index and friction selections). As such, I would not have expected to see any "soft index" lever sold by RH.
Perhaps though with no return spring, it might work ok??? !

Spiral-shaped "push plates" formed into the outer cage plate only enhance shifting toward larger cogs, they won't help shifting in the other direction. So this derailer does have to maintain a tight and consistent chain gap (through geometry and adjustability) just like any other modern derailer throwing around today's flexible bushingless chains.

Realizing responsive shifting with 11s cog spacing is a tall order, the derailer's design has to be good.

I wonder if this derailer's mounting style might(?) help with today's huge cassettes pushing the cage too close to the ground.
Might this mounting/orientation style possibly work better than any of the "three pulley" designs that have appeared (on paper and in metal)?

Remembering that Suntour offered a front-mounted (rear swing), indexing mtb/hybrid derailer in the early 90's, and that production bikes appeared with the system.

[David in Maine]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

Qualities that are easy to describe / prove / experience are prioritized over more subtle ones. This makes sense, it is easy to prove the new model is lighter or bigger but whether is handles / sounds / feels better will always be up for debate.

Sounds like modern education! (from the point of view of a music teacher)

David

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by David in Maine

Sounds like modern education! (from the point of view of a music teacher)

David

Modernity has a strong preference for the measurable, this has had ripple effects in all of our pursuits.

[lafish]

I think it's way cool, and would consider one on my next bike. But then, I like tube amps too.

[callmeishmael]

I love that the next post to this on the RH website is probably about the aero potential of mudguards. It's such an odd, but pleasing, juxtaposition.

Much as I suspect RH/JH are often onto something, this isn't one of those times. It looks nicely made, tbf, but it does strike me as a solution looking for a problem.

[hummus_aquinas]

As far as archaic, low volume production rear gorillas go, I'm much more excited for rivendell's OM-1. At least I won't have to build a custom bike around it. Unless..

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by hummus_aquinas

As far as archaic, low volume production rear gorillas go, I'm much more excited for rivendell's OM-1. At least I won't have to build a custom bike around it. Unless..

Assuming this is not going to be a $700 part, I would totally buy one of these.

[72gmc]

Why say "thing" and not "thingie"?

(this is a suggestion masquerading as a question)

[Toddtwenty2]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

I'd think a used steel frameset with the traditional derailleur hanger removed + tab added would suit, wouldn't it? Unless there is some sort of extra requirement for chainstay strength.

For sure. I could see where there would be a lower cost point in paying someone to remove a derailleur hanger, add a mounting tab for this derailleur, then repaint the bike. I have a nice, fillet brazed, late 90's Basso that would be a solid candidate, as it could use a repaint anyway. I'm not sold on being an early adopter yet.

What frameset would you envision for a conversion?

[72gmc]

Black Mountain Cycles, Soma, maybe a lugged steel Trek. Something that would fit 32-35c.