OT: No inductees in Cooperstown this year

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I’ll see your Dale Murphy and raise you Dewey Evans. Criminally overlooked.

Growing up Evans was the best outfielder I ever saw- strong and super accurate. Some say Ellis Valentine had the best arm of the era but I didn't see him play because I was/am a Yankees fan.

Ichiro was the best arm since then - strong and deadly accurate. I can't remember anyone who'd try to go from 1st to 3rd against Ichiro. A definite first ballot and should be unanimous inductee. Good article about Ichiro taking special visits to Cooperstown to see various items from past players.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

Growing up Evans was the best outfielder I ever saw- strong and super accurate. Some say Ellis Valentine had the best arm of the era but I didn't see him play because I was/am a Yankees fan.

Ichiro was the best arm since then - strong and deadly accurate. I can't remember anyone who'd try to go from 1st to 3rd against Ichiro. A definite first ballot and should be unanimous inductee. Good article about Ichiro taking special visits to Cooperstown to see various items from past players.

Ichiro. My second pick in our modern era (since Curt Flood) “Zoom Strato-O-Magic” league. Fignons’s Barber is also in. First pick: Ozzie. Give me Pudge Rodriguez behind the plate and Pudge Maddux on the diamond in a pitchers park, and let’s roll* ...

I saw him hit an inside the park HR at the all-star game in the City in 2007.

Great article here: https://crosscut.com/2019/03/basebal...-was-different

From the article: “He didn’t do everything, but Ichiro hit and fielded at unprecedented levels.” Well, considering he was one of the best base runners of all time, perhaps an oxymoron

*These are emotional picks. If there was a little pot of gold at the end of the season, early 2000s Bonds and Trout (of almost any year) would have to figure in prominently. Maybe mid 80s Eric the Red, A-Rod, and Ricky as well.

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Die hard Sox fan and I would NOT vote in Schilling.
Agree with your other votes.

Same. It’s not just that Schilling is a turd, he’s a mediocre pitcher AND a turd. Now Clemens I’m on the fence about. He was a dominant force before the steroids. The steroids I can forgive, pitching for the yankees is another story.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I think the problem is that the hall of fame is part museum and part honor. A baseball museum without Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and others does a terrible job of documenting all the incredible baseball that was played in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.

As an "honor," I recognize there can be debates over whose PEDs/gambling/****posting might disqualify a player from being worthy of the "honor," but that is really to the detriment of the museum. The games still count, the stats still count, the awards still count. I just don't know how you can justify having a museum of baseball and just not have a 7x MVP who is the career leader in home runs and walks.

They're all in there. They just dont have plaques. It's not as though the mention of their names and numbers is banned. They just dont get the speech on the lawn.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

I'm inclined to think that the HoF is about achievement on the field. Plenty of despicable characters already in there.

EDIT/P.S.: If Schilling ever gets in, I hope that the entire audience either walks out or turns their backs to him during his speech.

Is that because of what he did on the field of play?

[Bruce K]

Schilling will never get in due to his off field stuff.

His on field record should be good enough to get in (I have heard both sides and I know it’s close, but in the big moments he was epic).

But since entry is subjective.... there will always be some who should be in who won’t get that place in the HoF. And others who are there that maybe should not be.

BK

[oldpotatoe]

I get a kick out of these threads as they always descend into a doping discussion. American ball sports, ALL of them, are dirty. They have team docs who know the antidoping rules and regs inside and out and 'tend' to the players accordingly. In spite of the MD administered, 'legal' doping that goes on, some numbskulls still get caught.....doh!

ALL professional sports worldwide are dirty..name ONE that hasn't had some sort of doping scandal....

Russian Curler Stripped Of Olympic Bronze After He's Found Guilty Of Doping. Aleksandr Krushelnitckii, seen during the bronze medal game against Norway last week. ... The Russian curler, who tested positive for a banned substance known as meldonium, admitted to violating anti-doping rules in Pyeongchang.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1K70GL

https://pingsunday.com/chinese-doping-table-tennis/

BUT arguing who should or should not be in baseball's HOF, considering the denied doping(as in, no hard evidence), well, this discussion will go on for decades. With NO resolution.

I dn't care about baseball doping, I didn't like some of these guys cuz they were pri2ks off the field(bonds, as an example)..But Ty Cobb was too...Plus he played dirty.

"Sure, Cobb's a prick, but God Almighty, how that old man can still hit and run," said Babe Ruth.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

I get a kick out of these threads as they always descend into a doping discussion. American ball sports, ALL of them, are dirty. They have team docs who know the antidoping rules and regs inside and out and 'tend' to the players accordingly. In spite of the MD administered, 'legal' doping that goes on, some numbskulls still get caught.....doh!

ALL professional sports worldwide are dirty..name ONE that hasn't had some sort of doping scandal....


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKBN1K70GL

https://pingsunday.com/chinese-doping-table-tennis/

Yup! Whenever $$$ and tribalism are involved you can pretty much guarantee that any and every competitive advantage will be used to ensure victory or the most exciting outcome. Clean sports at the pro level are an illusion for the most part as are most other things kept in the spotlight to keep the masses entertained and feeling involved/tribal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[benb]

The biggest issue I see with keeping this round of dopers out is that doping was very prevalent for 25-30 years (steroids) before the era the press cared about it, and it was around for 50+ years (amphetamines) as well.

So tons of dopers already in the Hall. McGwire, Clemens, et. al just got to be the whipping boys.

Schilling seemed like a drama queen even when he was winning on the Sox. But everyone here in Boston is very biased because of the breaking of the curse, but yet still hates Schilling.

But it is very hard for any pro player to finish their career without Boston deciding they were really a turd. Brady is going through that right now.

[William]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Remember the bumper stickers from the 72 presidential race - Don't Blame Me, I'm From Massachusetts.

MA said no to the crybaby and RI gave him a 75 million loan guarantee so that he could chase his dreams of video game development stardom and in the process get what he called “Bill Gates-rich” in the process.

When he filed bankruptcy, I remember him crying that he would have to sell his 5 million dollar house in Medfield (which he bought from Pats QB Drew Bledsoe - remember him, the Wally Pipp of football).

RI is still recovering from that misstep of taking on the role of a venture capitalist. And the last I remeember, requests to release records of the grand jury investigation has not been fulfilled.

Since it's tied with Schilling, all I'll say is...Certain current and former politicians don't want what they did, said, and agreed to do with Schilling out in the public eye. And a certain "Guv" who promised to get to the bottom of that mess when she ran then did nothing when she got in. But I'm not going to wade any further into that political quagmire.

On field, off field.....blah blah blah. Schilling used what he did in the game to game people outside the game. I wouldn't shed a tear if he didn't get in.






W.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by nighthawk

Same. It’s not just that Schilling is a turd, he’s a mediocre pitcher AND a turd. Now Clemens I’m on the fence about. He was a dominant force before the steroids. The steroids I can forgive, pitching for the yankees is another story.

Pedophile

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Pedophile

Barf. I hadn’t heard that story. Not sure if I’ll bother googling, but def not getting my vote now.

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Ichiro. My second pick in our modern era (since Curt Flood) “Zoom Strato-O-Magic” league. Fignons’s Barber is also in. First pick: Ozzie. Give me Pudge Rodriguez behind the plate and Pudge Maddux on the diamond in a pitchers park, and let’s roll* ...

I saw him hit an inside the park HR at the all-star game in the City in 2007.

Great article here: https://crosscut.com/2019/03/basebal...-was-different

From the article: “He didn’t do everything, but Ichiro hit and fielded at unprecedented levels.” Well, considering he was one of the best base runners of all time, perhaps an oxymoron

*These are emotional picks. If there was a little pot of gold at the end of the season, early 2000s Bonds and Trout (of almost any year) would have to figure in prominently. Maybe mid 80s Eric the Red, A-Rod, and Ricky as well.

I loved Strat-O-Matic as a kid - couldn't wait to get the new season's cards each year. I think Evans had like a (-5) arm rating - highest rating in the SOM game.

As for Ichiro, he could do everything that he wanted. He could have easily hit more homeruns but chose not to. His bat control was phenomenal, like Rod Carew before him. I think one of his greatest contributions was breaking the stereotype/mold that Asian position ballplayers weren't good enough for MLB. Like the Moneyball left motif, pro sports tend to be stuck on biases/stereotypes until some great player dispels them, such as the Euro players in NHL and NBA.

One HOF item that I think should be changed is the inclusion of Negro League stats. While the premise is good, the problem is that statistics from that era weren't very accurate, including whether it was really a league game or exhibition. The players and stats should be recognized but I think distinct from MLB stats.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

I loved Strat-O-Matic as a kid - couldn't wait to get the new season's cards each year. I think Evans had like a (-5) arm rating - highest rating in the SOM game.

As for Ichiro, he could do everything that he wanted. He could have easily hit more homeruns but chose not to. His bat control was phenomenal, like Rod Carew before him. I think one of his greatest contributions was breaking the stereotype/mold that Asian position ballplayers weren't good enough for MLB. Like the Moneyball left motif, pro sports tend to be stuck on biases/stereotypes until some great player dispels them, such as the Euro players in NHL and NBA.

One HOF item that I think should be changed is the inclusion of Negro League stats. While the premise is good, the problem is that statistics from that era weren't very accurate, including whether it was really a league game or exhibition. The players and stats should be recognized but I think distinct from MLB stats.

Bingo. I had a mid 80s outfield of Barfield, Tony Armas, and Dewey. Jim
Sundberg was catching. No one was running. 🍻

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by veloduffer

One HOF item that I think should be changed is the inclusion of Negro League stats. While the premise is good, the problem is that statistics from that era weren't very accurate, including whether it was really a league game or exhibition. The players and stats should be recognized but I think distinct from MLB stats.

My first reaction to this news was to wonder who it is serving: the players who deserve recognition, or MLB's desire to rewrite history. I feel like it's the latter, and it should be the former. There is a way to offer overdue recognition by adding records rather than rewriting them.