#16
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+1
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#17
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I just don't give a damn. I never can understand how people get so bent out of shape over stuff like this. It matters not to me what you think or how you feel towards these issues. You are welcome to your opinion and can champion them as much as you want. Just don't expect me to change my opinion and we are good.
Now if it was my daughter up there on the podium how would I feel? What if she were the one on the second or third tier? Still doesn't matter. It only matters how she feels, and just like me, she is entitled to her own opinion.
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♦️♠️ ♣️♥️ |
#18
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I commend the thoughtful post and agree in spirit even though I am often the most incendiary one here.
I just want to offer one anecdote regarding the current civility debate: The person who was posting the most hateful and inflammatory remarks on yesterday's thread contacted me via private message about a year ago and excoriated me for a somewhat political statement I posted here. I repeatedly asked him whether his objection was based on the viewpoint I am obviously coming from. Both privately and publicly, he denied that. He then went on to post statements that I at least found outrageous which came from a particular political mindset and engaged vehemently with people from the "other side," eventually straying into slurs. As I said, I understand the thoughtfulness expressed above, but sometimes those who are asking for tolerance want that merely to express their own intolerance without objection. I'm not claiming that I have never been guilty of that, but I'm also not sure if letting it pass without condemnation is always possible. This is a discussion on "my" side right now - there are people who believe that gatherings like that in Charlottesville should be ignored and that if we ignore them, they'll go away. Others say that a lack of confrontation allows it to grow. |
#19
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MLK words are very topical to the discussion:
“Violence begets violence; toughness begets a greater toughness. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love... Our aim must never be to defeat or humiliate the white man, but to win his friendship and understanding.[6] The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy, instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.” Quote:
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***IG: mttamgrams*** |
#20
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Here, here.
Obviously, its hard to communicate by type and easy to spew trash when you don't have to look someone in the eye. Worse, some people also think their opinions are infallible. As a society we've glorified the opinion. So much of the media landscape is dedicated to people's opinions or people's opinions on other people's opinions. That there is some sort of righteous truth in the act of having an opinion. Opinion's can be, and often are, wrong, I've had opinions that I look back on and recognize as short sighted and wrong. As grown-ups we should be able to welcome questions to our opinions and look to facts (if we can agree facts are facts) to help guide our decisions.... Or at least, that's my opinion. Plus somehow have forgotten the most important life philosophy there is: don't be an asshole. |
#21
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Quote:
A historical fact that is often left unsaid is that by 1967 he basically took that back. See his September 1967 speech to the American Psychology Convention. His message of non-violence is uplifting but those statements have frequently been misused as of late as are Gandhi's when equating them with pacifism. Most importantly, MLK's statements were not a call to bothsidesism. This is how he closed in 1967: “Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society.” |
#22
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Quote:
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***IG: mttamgrams*** |
#23
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It's probably not a good place to start by labeling a person you're debating/discussing with as your foe but I get what you're saying.
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#24
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Truth
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***IG: mttamgrams*** |
#25
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Good initial post. Honestly, I read that transgender thread and had a definite opinion, but the thread was such a bad mix of mean spirit and self righteousness that I chose not to participate.
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BIXXIS Prima Cyfac Fignon Proxidium Legend TX6.5 |
#26
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Yeah, I appreciate the initial post here. I have a tendency of "getting into it" over certain subjects here, and sometimes I regret it, though usually not. I stayed out of that one, but had some broad thoughts as to the general incivility so visible there.
Few things sound as dismissive as people outside of either involved demographic starting posts with "sorry [insert whatever group you are about to slight and show how not actually sorry you are] trans/black/women..." I also wonder about all this heartfelt sympathy for women athletes who are so wronged. You'd think that this forum was driven by its feminist sympathies and gender equality, though anyone who has been here for any longer than it takes to check the Classifieds, knows this forum is a rough place for the handful of female cyclists who participate--or more likely once participated. I expect nothing but a cringe-fest and a quick lock in any thread that addresses gender or identity, all the worse if it includes "humor".
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Friends don't let friends ride junk! |
#27
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You don't have to be a feminist to have sympathy for the women competitors who feel wronged. As an athlete I know the number of sacrifices required, and how hard you have to work to have success at any level of the sport. If one of the lady athletes who poured her heart and soul into the pursuit of this big goal feels cheated, that sucks bad.
Last edited by earlfoss; 10-16-2018 at 01:58 PM. |
#28
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IOW there's no such thing as someone that's purely evil or someone that's purely good. |
#29
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My $.02 M |
#30
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