Cycling fatalities and e-bikes

[Mr. Pink]

Sorry you couldn't read the article, but, if one is to draw conclusions, it's not the food delivery guys, or, you can call them working cyclists, like cabbies are working drivers. They ride a lot, every day, so, of course, they experience more and react better. It's the newbie ebiker who is a problem, and my guess is that they aren't converted pedal powered cyclists to an ebiker, but, straight to e from not cycling for lord knows how long in their lives. And then they jump on one of these things with it's speed and weird handling in Manhattan, of all places, and, duh. A very unforgiving place for a mistake or two.
Two accidents mentioned were trucks turning right with a bike in the blind spot. Crunch. That has happened a lot over the years in Manhattan, whatever the bike. Never get in that place next to a bus or truck, but, if you do, make sure there's an exit right.

[verticaldoug]

I hate e-bikes probably as much or more than the rest of you. Here in London, I feel e-bikes are the most dangerous thing on the road.

London is a large, crowded city like NYC and it is having a decline in cycling fatalities.

London experienced a cycling commuter boom earlier than NYC due to the gov policies promoting it, and general increase in cycling post TDF success of English cyclists.

Along with the boom came increased fatalities. We had Critical Mass rides after many of the fatalities. At the time, many fatalities were from Trucks and Buses making the left turn with a newbie cyclist riding in the blind spot.

A heavy campaign was launch about cycling awareness, most trucks and buses have warning signs on the back left corner about not riding in the blind spot. etc etc. Now that London drivers have adjusted and London cyclists have improved in bike skills, things are much better.

As much as the bike infrastructure is complained about in London, the segregated super highway routes for commuting cyclists have also probably helped saved lives.

I know New Yorkers really hate the conversation about the congestion charge for Manhattan, but the congestion (ulez) charges in London have really helped over the years. Pollution is better, the roads not nearly as crowded which has the affect as drivers are not driving as angry as before.

Although, I suspect the fatalities are not really in Manhattan but in the outerboroughs where car and truck speeds can pick up.

[Hilltopperny]

The majority of folks who bought e-bikes from the shop I worked at last year were well above retirement age. That alone will have it's consequences and we did lose a client who was a competent mtb'er in his 70's who rode his full sus e-mtb off a small bridge in the Adirondacks.

He pulled himself and his bike out of the creek and went to the hospital to get checked out. They sent him home and he died from internal bleeding.

The other bunch who have e-bikes are folks who can't afford or get licensed to drive an automobile. We had at least 20 of the Rent-a-Center 85+ lb bikes in a week. The brakes never worked, the operator turns every dial on the controller up "to go faster" and zero maintenance make these things pretty dangerous.

I am shocked that the number isn't higher!

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[LegendRider]

This personal injury law firm has a practice dedicated to e-bikes:

https://avalaw.com/ebike-accidents-in-california/

[benb]

Originally Posted by stackie

I did ask if he was ok as I rode past. He gave me a thumbs up, so I guess all was well. I'm pleased with myself that I reserved any snide comments about a motor not conferring bike handling skills.

It never gets mentioned that a powered bike requires more bike handling skills. Not the same, not less, it requires more.

The heavier and more powerful they get the bigger the delta versus a non-powered bicycle.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

It never gets mentioned that a powered bike requires more bike handling skills. Not the same, not less, it requires more.

The heavier and more powerful they get the bigger the delta versus a non-powered bicycle.

Not only that many of them have crappy handling regardless. My benno remidemi inspires very little confidence in anything but straight. Mine is the slower version too capped at 20mph and no throttle. I can’t imagine feeling safe on the 28mph model and I love to go fast…

[Mr. Pink]

I demoed a higher end Trek road e-bike last year from a generous local bike shop for twenty miles in some steep, hilly territory. I forget the exact model, it retailed around 8000. Bosch system. The handling was actually wonderful. All that weight around the bottom bracket acted like a keel on a boat during descents, and the geometry was quite comfortable. But, I'm an experienced 3000 mile a year rider. Lord protect a younger male on the thing with little road experience using that turbo button.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

I am shocked that the number isn't higher!

I agree.

Really too bad about e-bikes. They certainly can be a benefit for older or disabled riders, commuters and just for folks wanting to get outdoors somehow and see stuff.

But a poorly regulated, rapidly growing industry combined with the basic human desire to just go faster have led to a dangerous mess.

Not to sound like a broken record… but on a pedal bike, by the time you can push 20 mph on a level surface you likely have at least some basic bike handling skills.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by benb

It never gets mentioned that a powered bike requires more bike handling skills. Not the same, not less, it requires more.

The heavier and more powerful they get the bigger the delta versus a non-powered bicycle.

Yep.

My wife has a Specialized Turbo Vado (hybrid). It has standard geometry and parts, so it just weighs a bit more than a standard bike. But the cheap stuff from Amazon, or the big carbo bikes, or the things that look more like Vespas than bicycles - I'm sure they all handle like crap, especially at speed. And stuff like RadPower have cable brakes and QR or bolt-on hubs, so require more setup care and maintenance vs TA and hydro brakes.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

I demoed a higher end Trek road e-bike last year from a generous local bike shop for twenty miles in some steep, hilly territory. I forget the exact model, it retailed around 8000. Bosch system. The handling was actually wonderful. All that weight around the bottom bracket acted like a keel on a boat during descents, and the geometry was quite comfortable. But, I'm an experienced 3000 mile a year rider. Lord protect a younger male on the thing with little road experience using that turbo button.

Yep, I have still yet to really try a really nice eBike like that. Just crappy ones.

Other than still having derailleurs the fancier eBikes have basically taken a page from motorcycle design and have centralized the heavy mass.

The cheaper ones obviously don't.

The thing with increasing power is even with the design thought out really well the rider must do the right thing and have correct technique. Sporting motorcycles handle almost telepathically but only for someone who has trained in the right sequences of behaviors. Riding pedal bicycles does not teach this. Most of us get away with coasting through corners and odd use of the brakes, lack of conscious counter steering, and other stuff that is very bad behavior on a motorcycle. When I took motorcycle training I almost think my bicycle experience (mostly road) was even somewhat a negative as I had ingrained bad habits.

Now at what power level that matters is another question.

[Likes2ridefar]

Funny i thought the opposite with a motorcycle. I strongly believe i survived 20000 miles a year commuting from CT to Manhattan 5 days a week for two years because of my experience in racing in a peloton and picking lines on a mtb. I’m glad it’s over and won’t be on a motorcycle again!

[benb]

Originally Posted by Likes2ridefar

Funny i thought the opposite with a motorcycle. I strongly believe i survived 20000 miles a year commuting from CT to Manhattan 5 days a week for two years because of my experience in racing in a peloton and picking lines on a mtb. I’m glad it’s over and won’t be on a motorcycle again!

Not sure I would disagree with that, but Peloton survival skills have to do with situational awareness and putting yourself in the right place at the right time and so on and so forth. That definitely carries over to how you place yourself in traffic on a motorcycle and respond to situations. (Other than that Peloton following distances are considered suicidal in the motorcycle world.)

I meant more stuff like cyclists getting away with bad braking behavior or not looking through to the exit of turns, coasting through the apex, etc.. the kind of stuff that motorcycles are much less tolerant of. Low speed + Low Power + Lots of Grip + Great handling + Great ground clearance make bikes very forgiving.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by benb

I meant more stuff like cyclists getting away with bad braking behavior or not looking through to the exit of turns, coasting through the apex, etc.. the kind of stuff that motorcycles are much less tolerant of. Low speed + Low Power + Lots of Grip + Great handling + Great ground clearance make bikes very forgiving.

Ah, I see. Most people don’t know the front brake provides most the stopping power, even experienced cyclists I’ve found sometimes don’t get this..

I learned a lot in the safety course on that regard as well that wasn’t intuitive from road cycling.

[GregL]

Snip:

Originally Posted by thwart

Not to sound like a broken record… but on a pedal bike, by the time you can push 20 mph on a level surface you likely have at least some basic bike handling skills.

Only half in jest: thanks to Zwift and other online training systems, this isn't true anymore. Especially since COVID, I've seen more strong riders with weak bike handling skills at races and group rides. Lots of Zwift fitness with less pack skills.

Greg

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by GregL

Snip:Only half in jest: thanks to Zwift and other online training systems, this isn't true anymore. Especially since COVID, I've seen more strong riders with weak bike handling skills at races and group rides. Lots of Zwift fitness with less pack skills.

Greg

I saw this regularly well before zwift when I raced on the road. The amount of people that couldn’t even do a basic move like hopping up a curb, instead requiring a dismount, always surprised me. Even at cat 1,2 levels occasionally..