Any recent converts to electronic shifting? Thoughts.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by Tommasini53

if that's where we are all headed

Not ALL of us...

[flying]

Originally Posted by Louis

Not ALL of us...

+1

It all fine & I imagine to many they are beneficial for various reasons...but as you said

Someone asked about elec shift & rim brake There are companies starting up with that configuration due to cable operated disc brake too. It was featured at the Taipei Bike Show on China Cycling YouTube coverage. Not just L-Twoo but another company I had not heard of before called WheelTop


https://youtu.be/nmAEjN90OhU?t=28

I looked them up on their website
https://wheeltop.com/products/eds-bicycle-derailleur

[benb]

Originally Posted by NHAero

11 speed was the last rim brake group, right? Di2 or cable? So I think you'd still be looking for parts that aren't being made now.

I would probably get R8000/R8150 depending on whether I thought I wanted the electronic. They list that as still current.

No real concern about 11 or 12 speed, so 11 would be fine. Zero issues with 10 speed right now. (edit: Never mind, R8150 is electronic 12-speed + mechanical brake)

I have some sort of Ultegra 11 speed crank on my bike right now but run 10 speed. I would be pretty disappointed if Shimano managed to make several different 11 speed configurations and the current 11 speed crank I have was not compatible with R8000.

Whatever the case the model #s are confusing.

[rothwem]

I’m somewhat morally opposed to electronic shifting—a bike shouldn’t need batteries to perform basic functions. Sure, I have a GPS and a power meter, but I *can* ride the bike without batteries in those. I guess I could with electronic shifting too, I’d just be singlespeeding.

Anyways though, I’m building up a new ALR frameset, and cripes, part of me is wishing I’d sprung for AXS or Di2. All.the.damn.cables.

[benb]

Yes indeed, when I pulled my Domane out for the first time for the season it had not one but 2 coin cell batteries dead.

But the ride went fine. Just no power/speed/cadence other than GPS speed.

As an aside.. I started buying CVS brand batteries cause they have way less annoying packaging. I am going to go back to Duracell or whatever I was using. It seems like the brand name CR2032s last 3-4x as long for me in the sensors. The Duracells have what I would call "Adult Proof Packaging" though.

[Robot870]

Rode Di2 for a few years but back on mechanical 9100. Just works better for me.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Interestingly, while both rim brake and mechanical shifting are disappearing from road components, rim brakes are disappearing fastest from mid-level groups, and mechanical shifting is disappearing fastest from high-level groups. If I were to guess why this is: Electronic shifting creates a large price jump, and high-end groups can better absorb the higher prices; there is still a sizeable market for drivetrain upgrades on older road bikes, and the upgrade market typically chooses high-end components, while at the same time older road bikes are more apt to use rim brakes. (And because rim brakes are less expensive than rim brakes, the low-end market will probably still support rim brakes and mechanical shifting for at least a while yet.)

My thought on this is it's somewhat unfortunate.

Unless it's something in the derailleurs I'd suspect a lot of the cost of electronic is amortizing engineering cost. The bill of materials cost is probably not that high and there are probably lots of ways to build stuff cheaper/heavier and still get good performance. But they gotta pay off the high paid people who did the computer side and software side, and they now have themselves stuck in the trap of maintaining software for stuff they already sold without recurring fees to the riders. And if they make more SKUs with different #s of gears in the back or capabilities they can get themselves in the trap of making even more software work than needed.

So they are keeping electronic shifting up at the high end even though they can probably do it well at the low end.

Meanwhile a lot of the cheaper disc brakes really don't do well. Cheap mechanical discs are often no better than rim brakes and have wear & maintenance/adjustment issues.

And a lot of cheap hydraulics seem to chew up pads or love to spring leaks. Really nice hydraulics seem like they are worth every penny. And really nice hydraulics with the right pads are what actually provide that bulletproof experience the bike companies seem to want to provide to every day riders who aren't mechanically inclined.

[biker72]

Being old and set in my ways the thought of me having a bike with electronic shifting was pretty remote.

I now have a Lynskey Helix with Ultegra Di2 12 speed. I like it. I have it set up in what I call semi-auto mode. When I shift the front derailleur up the rear automatically shifts 2 cogs down.

Am I going to change my other bikes to electronic??? NOOOOO! They are fine just as they are.

To answer the OP's question, I like both electronic and mechanical shifting.

[benb]

Here is a question for people who have the SRAM stuff.

If you have one shifter battery fail is it able to switch to doing everything with one paddle?

The way Shimano always did 2-way seems like it would support that versus Double-tap.

It's a dang computer, you ought to be able to double-tap it to go one way and single for the other in "limp home" mode or something else like that.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

Unless it's something in the derailleurs I'd suspect a lot of the cost of electronic is amortizing engineering cost. The bill of materials cost is probably not that high and there are probably lots of ways to build stuff cheaper/heavier and still get good performance. But they gotta pay off the high paid people who did the computer side and software side, and they now have themselves stuck in the trap of maintaining software for stuff they already sold without recurring fees to the riders. And if they make more SKUs with different #s of gears in the back or capabilities they can get themselves in the trap of making even more software work than needed.

So they are keeping electronic shifting up at the high end even though they can probably do it well at the low end.

I've heard this hypothesized several times, but I haven't seen any evidence indicating that electronic shifting doesn't cost more to make than mechanical. All the electronic shifting systems from Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo have higher price tags, so if electronic shifting did cost the same (or less) to make than mechanical, there would have to be some type of collusion to keep the prices high. And if electronic shifting wasn't more expensive to make, you'd think the market was ripe for one of the smaller companies like Microshift or L-Twoo to undercut the big players with a low cost electronic shifting system.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by benb

If you have one shifter battery fail is it able to switch to doing everything with one paddle?

Nope. But on the other hand, a spare 2032 coin cell weighs 3 grams, is small enough to stow in a variety of places on a bike.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I've heard this hypothesized several times, but I haven't seen any evidence indicating that electronic shifting doesn't cost more to make than mechanical. All the electronic shifting systems from Shimano, SRAM and Campagnolo have higher price tags, so if electronic shifting did cost the same (or less) to make than mechanical, there would have to be some type of collusion to keep the prices high. And if electronic shifting wasn't more expensive to make, you'd think the market was ripe for one of the smaller companies like Microshift or L-Twoo to undercut the big players with a low cost electronic shifting system.

Microshift/whatever would still have to steal the electronics design and software/algorithms which is the expensive part.

Supporting the software as an ongoing process is expensive, and figuring out how to make unit #1 work really well was very expensive.

But it really depends on the volume of shifters they are selling and whether they figured out how to run the exact same software/electronics in every SKU.

If every single SRAM or Shimano electronic system has exactly the same firmware in it that would go a long way to bring costs down.

I've never seen the insides of the Shimano setup but IIRC I saw the boards inside SRAM and the chips on it are dirt cheap off the shelf even without volume discounts.

Like < $20 if you or I ordered 1 each. Computer stuff is way cheaper than bike stuff if you can use OTS stuff. But that OTS stuff doesn't come with any software to control derailleurs and it doesn't come with a board design that fits in a shifter.

edit: Looks like SRAM is maintaining iOS and Android apps and has all kinds of different firmware for all the different models of hardware... That's expensive.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

I have Campy SR11, Record 10 on two bikes, and Centaur on one. I just never have to touch it. Guess I just like driving a stick (so to speak...). I might consider electronic if I bought a new (maybe All-Road) bike, but for now, I'm good....

That, my friend is the thing that you can't talk about. Personally, I have found a massive difference in the long term performance and reliability of certain brands as opposed to others (for mechanical shifters).

[superbowlpats]

I have AXS (XPLR) on my 2023 Trek Boone. I absolutely love it. Shifting under load (cyclocross racing duress) is seamless, better than my other CX bike with mech Force. Plus there are no cables! At least for me visually, I hate cables. My next road bike will definitely be wireless.

[gospastic]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Nope. But on the other hand, a spare 2032 coin cell weighs 3 grams, is small enough to stow in a variety of places on a bike.

And if you don’t want to carry around the extra 3g, you could also shift on the derailleurs themselves to a gear that would be usable to get home. Repeat as necessary depending on terrain.