Your opinion on the various options for big-tire rim brakes?

[mhespenheide]

All,

If you were going for a new build with rim brakes and relatively large tires, would you go with [1] Avid Supreme canti's, [2] Paul Minomotos, [3] Paul Racer M centerpulls, or [4] something like Velo-Orange or TRP dual-pivot sidepulls?

I'm looking at nabbing a Lemond Poprad, which has good clearances, but has canti mounts. I'd be 100% fine with paying a local builder to move the mounts, though, and/or move the brake bridge. I'd commission a new custom steel fork in any case.

I find myself drawn to the Racer M's but can't really explain why. If the mini-motos or Avid are 95% as good, I should probably use them just for the sake of simplicity. I like simplicity. I've had one bike with cheap tektro mini-v's and found them fiddly because of the need to keep the pads close to the rims.

I'd particularly appreciate any thoughts from @angryscientist or others who have extensive experience with multiple of these braking systems.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[jtbadge]

TRP CX8.4 is the best combo of stopping power, compatibility, price for a canti frame IMO. Super strong, easy to adjust, affordable, comes with good pads. MiniMotos get points for swag but honestly aren't worth 3x the price.

I wouldn't bother getting the frame altered and buying a new fork. Too much work/cost for no real improvement.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

If you were going for a new build with rim brakes and relatively large tires

has canti mounts.

Some form of v-brake.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by HTupolev

Some form of v-brake.

Agreed. No worries about fork shudder with a V-brake.

Avid cantilever's for second choice.

[mass_biker]

On my bike with rim brake + some clearance

- running Velo Orange Grand Cru....LOVE them. Great stopping power, and super predictable and easy modulation with DA9000 brifters in all conditions (dry/wet, road/gravel). My only limitation (as it turns out) is the rear tire finding its way to the front derailleur (at 700x38). But 700x32 works great. And maybe 700x34.

On my bike with cantis

- I am experimenting with Velo Orange cantis...super easy set-up. I am struggling with some friction in the rear brake cable line (Sram Force levers) but hoping to resolve it asap. Beefy, and not at all fussy.

I would welcome any feedback from any + all on canti "tricks"...

m_b

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

TRP CX8.4 is the best combo of stopping power, compatibility, price for a canti frame IMO.

Are they that much better than the Tektro 926? Those are the former pair I had and it felt like I had to re-adjust them monthly to keep them dialed.

Or is that just an inherent problem with mini-v brakes?

[AngryScientist]

hola rim brake amigos.

First off, i'll color my opinions with 2 factors:

1) i love going down hill fast. i demand good braking because it lets you build more speed and scrub it when necessary.

2) i weigh 130# and concede that my experience may (likely) be different than someone with more mass.

What I do not like about mini-v's:

1) they generally require you to run the pads pretty close to the rims, which I dont like to NEED to do for various reasons, especially on a rough road bike.

2) in light of (1) above, they do require more precision to set up and require tweaking for system "upsets" more than wide stance cantis, which are more forgiving.

3) they dont look good to my aesthetic eye.

I briefly had a pair of Paul racer cerntermounts. they were fine, but i ditched them because i didnt want a cable hanger. On small frames that i ride, space is at a premium, not so much of an issue for larger frames.

I like wide stance cantis. Paul neo retros are the gold standard IMO, but the one's from tektro and others are good also. fresh, good soft pads are a must and good initial set-up is required. Since you can run them further away from the rim, you can adjust for preferred lever feel and a more forgiving tolerance to what i'm calling system upsets. I have thousands and thousands of miles of roadish and off-roadish terrain with these brakes and i have literally never ished i had "more" brake.

The rims matter. Not all brake surfaces are created equal. some brands just have a better braking surface than others. keeping both the rims reasonably clean as well as the brake pads makes a big difference.

So to answer the question, i bought a frame in 2021 spec'd for cani brakes and i went paul. for me they just work.

[mhespenheide]

Thanks, Nick. Knowing your depth of experience, that's a strong recommendation.

I built up a Poprad for a friend a few years ago and used Tektro CR-720's. Maybe that's the way to go again, if I pick up this bike.

[donevwil]

I've tried all the ones listed minus the VO dual pivots. IMO it's really a function of how heavy you are and how well/fast you want to stop (I'm 230# in a very hilly area).

I'd say Racer M's are my favorite of the bunch (mine are braze-on, never tired center mount). Not as "perfect" as a pair of quality road dual pivots, but close. Of course one has to be fine with the cable routing gymnastics required, especially in front. Mine are on a travel bike, not ideal.

A good set of cantis are #2 for me. There are MANY more crappy cantis out there than good cantis. I have Suntour XC-Pros with Power Hangers (eliminates the need for a cable hanger and reduces system flex) on three bikes. The Avids were fine and easier to set up, but I swapped them for the Suntour because I prefer the adjustability of old school post mounted pads. Adding the Power Hangers brought them to another level.

Mini-Vs are #3. Easily the most powerful at the definite expense of modulation (I have Pauls). When all my other bikes have good to great modulating brakes with enough power, the first few miles, or an emergency stop, on my Paul mini V bike can lead to unwanted excitement (who needs to be able to lock up both wheels anyway?). I ended up swapping out the Salmon pads for Kool Stop's CX compound and that helped weaken them a bit.

#4 would be mid reach dual pivots. I found the TRPs to be a bit weak and flexy for me and that was after swapping salmon pads in front. They were fine for 90% of my riding, but that last 10% caused some more excitement. I preferred the Shimano BR-600/650s, but power was still less than I wanted.

[MikeD]

I think I've dialed in my brakes on my gravel/touring bike. Tektro V brake road levers, Shimano Deore V-brakes, Discobrake black brake pads. I tried Tektro V brakes but the Shimano's are better. The spring tension on the Tektros couldn't be dialed in (either too stiff or too light, and maybe there was some binding as well). Tried Koolstop pads but they squealed and were grabby. Jagwire Elite brake housing too, as it's stiffer than regular spiral wound brake housing (noticeable lack of sponginess on the rear brake). Polished stainless inner wires lubed with SP-41 grease as well.

The bike came with cantis. I could not get them to work to my satisfaction because of cable routing issues. V's solved that problem. If you can't mount a front cable hanger on the fork crown, I wouldn't bother with cantis (too tight of a bend and fork shudder).

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

TRP CX8.4 is the best combo of stopping power, compatibility, price for a canti frame IMO. Super strong, easy to adjust, affordable, comes with good pads. MiniMotos get points for swag but honestly aren't worth 3x the price.

I wouldn't bother getting the frame altered and buying a new fork. Too much work/cost for no real improvement.

I had really good luck with these. Modulation isn’t as good as discs but stopping power is the most powerful I’ve ever felt with a rim brake, and I’ve felt a lot of disc brakes that were weaker than these.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

Are they that much better than the Tektro 926? Those are the former pair I had and it felt like I had to re-adjust them monthly to keep them dialed.

Or is that just an inherent problem with mini-v brakes?

Not asking me but I never touched my set for like 5 years and they were always flawless. I actually did try those tektros on another bike and they were not as powerful.

[EB]

Nick's advice is sound.

One thing I'd add if you follow his advice and go with Pauls - I would suggest trying different pads than the Koolstop Salmon Thinlines that they include with those brakes, unless you're riding in the rain and mud all the time.

[Tommasini53]

FWIW; My gravel bike (custom Strong) is Campy brifters and Paul Mini Motos. They work great; smooth pull, pull works great with Campy brifters, stays in adjustment. I'm using Hed Belgium + rims and 35-38 Schwalbes. I originally intended to use Travel Agent adapters to provide more cable pull but I found it was not necessary. I see above Angry Scientist recommends another Paul product. Paul products are top notch fantastic quality. If AS recommends those, I'm sure they work very well.

[robt57]

If you can justify cost, mini motos.

If not warranted on, cheapest best stopping imo tektro 926al. Not first time saying all this.

Kool stop salmaon pad not optional, they come on/with the mini motos... Shoul tell ypu something.

Side note, i prefer using dura type pad carriers and kool stops on tektros.