Rivendell saved for now...

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by eddief

will the become collectable?

The XO-1? Assuming this is directed at me it's already sorta collectible, although the prices haven't soared yet. In 10 years? I suspect I could get twice my purchase price back if I stored it, but I don't buy bikes to store. I'm ridin' that sucker!

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by colker

My size.
I am not a big fan of slim tires on 26in wheels though. I would maybe go w/ 2.2 slicks.

Oh yeah, it's getting fat tires..people are telling me to get Compass (René Herse) Natches Pass. The stock skinnies look shockingly new - there isn't even any fade on the tanwall - but them babies are 26 years old. They gotta go.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

ive rediscovered the DT shifting as well.
you dont really need brifters unless youre racing

I'll respectfully disagree about where brifters are most needed. The place I find them most useful is urban riding. My former commute took me down busy city streets as I traveled from the suburb where I lived to another suburb where I worked. Having the ability to keep my hands on the brake levers while shifting made my commuter safer and less stressful.

Greg

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

Ok! I couldn't upload it here, so let's try a Google link. This is a rather lousy pic from when I first got 'er home; that horrendous '90s tape will be gone soon, and a proper Brooks shall be sat upon.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gDTTJCPsBfaswwiv9

The Avocet saddle looks just like the one that came on my 1989 MB-3.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by blakcloud

Rivendell has lost its way and it is unfortunate. Rivendell should be making the bikes in the style that Shinola is doing. Upright bikes, disk brakes, nicely finished not the monstrosities they are making now. Shinola knows how to market their brand. They sell bikes to people who have money,know nothing about bikes but want quality. They have over 30 locations in the US alone and more in Europe.



I am a Rivendell owner but when I wanted a new bike, Rivendell wasn't on my radar anymore. They just won't make what I want so I took my money elsewhere.

I was going to say the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pegoready]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

The XO-1? Assuming this is directed at me it's already sorta collectible, although the prices haven't soared yet. In 10 years? I suspect I could get twice my purchase price back if I stored it, but I don't buy bikes to store. I'm ridin' that sucker!

Good for you. I love the idea of this thing being ridden rather than flipped. I have to "out" your bike because it's just too cool. When am I going to find a fresh XO-1?

The mustache bars are better in pictures than in practice, in my experience.

[gdw]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

That thing is so ugly I unfollowed Speedvagen on IG so I could stop looking at it. This is also another vote for naming bikes Road, Tour, or give it a number. I'm not riding a GTFO!

That is the bike Grant should have released instead of the Bombadil. It looks like an updated Bridgestone MB with modern components and probably has very similar geometry and ride to those old classics. I bet it even could have been built with readily available lugs.

[colker]

Originally Posted by gdw

That is the bike Grant should have released instead of the Bombadil. It looks like an updated Bridgestone MB with modern components and probably has very similar geometry and ride to those old classics. I bet it even could have been built with readily available lugs.

Bombadil is a mountain bike. That thing isn´t. Not to mention all the technologies Grant refused to buy... and that´s his difference. Why should you have another expensive gravel, all road bike w/ the same discs and forks?
Riv would have the same troubles it has now but being forgettable. As it is if it goes down it will go as a legend.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by GregL

I'll respectfully disagree about where brifters are most needed. The place I find them most useful is urban riding. My former commute took me down busy city streets as I traveled from the suburb where I lived to another suburb where I worked. Having the ability to keep my hands on the brake levers while shifting made my commuter safer and less stressful.

Greg

For me, the place where brifters add the most value is on my partner's bike. She doesn't ride as much as me, isn't particularly coordinated, and gets nervous on a bike easily. For her to have one place where she can stick her hands, reach the brakes, and shift precisely with the simple throw of a lever is essential to her even being willing to ride with me at all.

She also loves her disc brakes.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by Pegoready

Good for you. I love the idea of this thing being ridden rather than flipped. I have to "out" your bike because it's just too cool. When am I going to find a fresh XO-1?

The mustache bars are better in pictures than in practice, in my experience.

Oh Mustache Bars are the worst, I've never gotten them to work for me. But they look rad on an XO-1 and this will be a short-hop bike, so they're staying.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by colker

Bombadil is a mountain bike. That thing isn´t. Not to mention all the technologies Grant refused to buy... and that´s his difference. Why should you have another expensive gravel, all road bike w/ the same discs and forks?
Riv would have the same troubles it has now but being forgettable. As it is if it goes down it will go as a legend.

This is basically my argument (which is kinda pointless to argue cuz the bikes are selling, but I digress..): I don't see how Riv benefits from doing less Rivvy bikes. If I want a Speedvagen or Surly I'll just go to those companies.

[mosca]

Originally Posted by dem

I normally stay outta threads like this.. but every time it pops up, I think "A t-shirt would be kind of cool because I like interesting/obscure bike T-shirts"

Every time they are all out of stock. Literally the easiest, highest margin item you can sell.

That is all.

I wish they would do a series of shirts based on their headtube badge designs. Not that it would save the company or anything, but they would look great. And I would buy a bunch of them.

[Ken Robb]

I swapped drop bars for moustache on my Riv Allrounder and I preferred them. I had Suntour Power Ratchet barends with both bars. Along with the bars I also traded a Nitto Technomic DeLuxe 11cm for a Dirt Drop stem to keep the reach to the curved section of the bars within reach as that is the "get long and low" position relative to the sit up and cruise position when gripping straighter ends of the bars like when riding a motorcycle. I'm thinking about swapping the Noodle bars on my Rambouillet for Moustache/Dirt Drop combo to see how I like that.

[jtbadge]

Since we are convinced the bikes aren't the problem, can we talk about why the parts aren't selling?

Originally Posted by jtbadge

Serious question: who's buying parts from Rivendell except to go with a frame they bought from Rivendell?

Maybe some of the bag and rack stuff? But I cross checked a few parts (brakes, BBs, bars, shifters, etc) against QBP and online retailers and they were all more expensive on Riv, sometimes much (as much as 40-50%) more expensive. Plus, most places have a free shipping threshold, or, ya know, order from your LBS if they don't have what you need in stock.

Phil Wood BBs were slightly cheaper on Riv, and they still have some discontinued stuff, that's cool.

What value are they adding that may not be super obvious, besides the warm fuzzies of supporting GP and friends?

Maybe they need to make it more obvious what they can offer that other shops can't? Outside of the bikes, of course.

[ravdg316]

Originally Posted by raygunner

Totally unproductive, let's not engage in personal attacks.

I give Joe credit, he's a big fan of Riv and I'm glad he is here to discuss and I think there's lot of good insight here.

No one wants to see Riv fail, they're a big reason we're at this point in regards to the collective philosophy of how we ride, gravel, fat tires, etc.

Can we get a running list of things they can do to right the ship?

Top of my head --

1). Better website pictures. All their main pictures of their bikes are headbadges. This is sloppy and unacceptable.

2). 80/20 analysis -- analyze their product line using numbers from the past two years. Figure out the 20 percent of their store inventory and bicycle models that produce 80 percent of their sales, double down on those items and sell the rest at cost in a big sale. Clear warehouse space and free up some cash to re-invest and promote best-selling inventory.

3). Copywriting -- focus less on mocking modern parts and more on hyping the beauty, durability and ride of traditional steel. Honesty is good, but mocking the purchasing decisions of potential customers is bad. Grant needs somebody who'll be his editor and not be afraid to question his decisions to put particular ideas in print. He seems to write and publish on feel rather than research.

4). Advertising. I want to see a Hunqapiller with Ultegra 8000, or a silver Roadeo or Roadini with Campagnolo 12, Shamal Mille's and Compass Bon Jon Pass tires. Take tons of photos and submit to the Radavist. Then, get pictures of the same bikes with more traditional Rivendell parts (Tektro, Sugino etc.). Test and see which pictures do better.

5). Eliminate employees down to the essentials (80/20 rule again). Give raises to the employees who remain. Not sure how this will work from a managerial standpoint, but this will be the most difficult but necessary component.

6). Renegotiate terms with Taiwanese vendors. Not sure how much Grant has done here or how good Rivendell's credit is, but he'll need to have difficult conversations with his vendors to see about securing better payment terms than he has now, in exchange for ordering more good inventory up front/paying slightly more in exchange for cash flow.

You have a world-class copywriter on staff in Grant, who also happens to be one of the most knowledgeable and well-connected people in the entire industry. However, Grant seems to be operating unchecked and now seems to be depending on the goodwill he's cultivated over the years to keep his company running. I don't think it has to be that way. I think Rivendell can be saved. None of the above recommendations cost significant money to implement -- only time and the willingness to make difficult decisions.

And below -- one of my favorite bikes ever photographed.