Front Derailleur Help - Chorus 11 on Ritchey Logic Cranks

[andy.mgnr]

Hoping someone might know a trick to help me get Campy Chorus 11 FD shift properly as I’m at my wits end and have tried every way possible with no luck.

I’m using a Ritchey Logic Compact triple as a double with TA 9 speed 50/34 chainrings with a Chorus 11 2015+ group (copied this exact setup from Pat from Ultradynamico’s Romanceur). Shimano 11 speed cassette and chain, everything pretty much new. Kind of a mix and match group so I’m sure that’s not helping but I’ve seen it done!

When I go to shift up into the big ring the chain moves up to the upper ring but doesn’t quite make its way on to teeth, it will just continue to ride pinched against the side of the FD cage and the teeth. In order to get it to shift all the way up I have to over compensate and add extra tension, plus the outer limit has to be moved out enough to allow the inside of the cage enough movement to shove the chain that last mm or two over to make it onto the teeth - at this point the chain is very prone to over shifting and dropping or the FD cage itself actually runs into the crank arm! This also requires me to throw the lever all the way twice and not in a single shift.

I have tried raising and lowering the FD tons, angling the cage in or out a bit, and adding tons of extra tension to no avail. I’ve set up plenty of FDs in this past and never had this much trouble. Any ideas??

Thoughts:
-is it just impossible with my crankset setup?
-is there a way to adjust the leverage or throw of the FD arm? I’ve got the cable correctly routed around the top of the tab
-I do remember thinking it was weird but when installing my cable the barrel at the end didn’t drop into or recess into the plastic ratchet mechanism inside the shifter body, but instead just sat on top. I tried and poked around to see but it really didn’t seem like there was a recess it could drop into. Could that be an issue?

[Peter P.]

Is your crank axle length appropriate for a double chainring setup? Could you be using a triple compatible axle with your double setup?

Recommended chainline center is 43.5mm.

This video may help if you don't know how to measure chainline.

[PacNW2Ford]

The Ritchey Logics (at least the 110/74 versions) have less clearance between the big ring and crankarm, so it’s not surprising it won’t clear a modern FD.

[Peter P.]

I just noticed you posted your problem elsewhere on this forum and have already tried a shorter crank axle.

AS PacNW2Ford has noted, this crank is of a vintage that was not current when 11 speed was introduced. Newer crankarms are shaped to accommodate 11/12 speed cassette widths and the associated front derailleurs.

Since the crank was originally designed as a triple, I would try using an older, 9 speed triple ATB front derailleur.

[Mark McM]

You mention the drivetrain components, but you don't identify the frame. It appears that the problem here is that your frame has an unusually shallow seat tube angle (or possible that the frame has a lot of BB drop - in any case, the there is an unusually small angle between the seat tube and the chain stays). Front derailleurs are designed to work when mounted to a seat tube within a certain range of angles. Outside of that range of angles, the derailleur won't work as well.

I see that the front derailleur is mounted with a clamp-on hanger. I'd start by rotating the derailleur clockwise (tail inward) as far as it can go on the mounting tab of the clamp-on hanger, and then rotating the clamp-on hanger on the seat tube clamp counter-clockwise to align the derailleur with the chainrings; in other words, move the derailleur tab as far forward as it will go, to simulate a steeper seat tube.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

I just noticed you posted your problem elsewhere on this forum and have already tried a shorter crank axle.

AS PacNW2Ford has noted, this crank is of a vintage that was not current when 11 speed was introduced. Newer crankarms are shaped to accommodate 11/12 speed cassette widths and the associated front derailleurs.

Since the crank was originally designed as a triple, I would try using an older, 9 speed triple ATB front derailleur.

I doubt this will make a difference. Crank spacing and alignment has changed little since about the 6 or 7 speed era. Changes in chain and cassette width have been accomodated by changes in the chainrings, not the cranks. I've used 7spd era crankarms with Campagnolo 11spd drivetrains and have not experienced the problems that the OP is describing.

[jtakeda]

Almost certain this is the answer.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...8aAhqGEALw_wcB

I had a similar issue with a 73mm bb and campy 11 FD.

This sram wide spacing front derailleur adapter fixed it

Also re: the cable head in the shifter, if I’m reading that correct, that doesn’t sound right.

[andy.mgnr]

Originally Posted by jtakeda

Almost certain this is the answer.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...8aAhqGEALw_wcB

I had a similar issue with a 73mm bb and campy 11 FD.

This sram wide spacing front derailleur adapter fixed it

Also re: the cable head in the shifter, if I’m reading that correct, that doesn’t sound right.

Hmm you might be onto something - I’ve got the skinniest BB I could get but I still have to tighten the lower limit screw in all the way to get it over enough. Unfortunately I’ve got a 26.8 downtube and it’s tough finding a clamp that will work :/

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by andy.mgnr

Hmm you might be onto something - I’ve got the skinniest BB I could get but I still have to tighten the lower limit screw in all the way to get it over enough. Unfortunately I’ve got a 26.8 downtube and it’s tough finding a clamp that will work :/

Use a shim!

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by andy.mgnr

Hmm you might be onto something - I’ve got the skinniest BB I could get but I still have to tighten the lower limit screw in all the way to get it over enough. Unfortunately I’ve got a 26.8 downtube and it’s tough finding a clamp that will work :/

I think you mean 28.6 seat tube. I've never seen a seat tube or downtube that was 26.8.

[Tychom]

There are also eccentric front derailleur clamps if you really need to be playing with the positioning even more.

[oldpotatoe]

I think it's a combo of the two. BB spindle too long(remember, when the front der moves out, it also moves up) and slack ST angle making the front der 'tail up', which means the 'bump' on the front der, responsible for shifting, isn't hitting the chain.

[echelon_john]

I did a setup with a Middleburn triple setup as a double also with a chorus 11 double but used the middle & inner positions for the chainrings with a chain guard/bash ring in the outer position. Shifted flawlessly. I think you’re asking the derailleur to go too far outward.

[NHAero]

I've used an old Sugino AT 110/74 triple with 44-33 on the outer and middle positions with an appropriate length BB spindle on at least two bikes. The Anderson used Shimano ST-RS685 11s shifters. The old Litespeed MTB uses a Dura Ace barcon on a Thumbie. Both with the CX70 FD, bottom pull on the Anderson, top pull on the Litespeed.

[Mark McM]

Many of the suggestions here are assuming that the derailleur isn't travelling far enough outward to reach the big chainring. But the OP indicates that the derailleur reaches far enough outward to both contact the back of the crank arm and to throw the chain off the outside of the chainring. So the outward travel of the derailleur is more than sufficient.

From the photo, it appears that the derailleur is located too far back to shift to the big ring properly. Notice that even though the crank has a large (16 tooth) chainring differential, when the chain is in the small ring the chain is only halfway down the cage. Also note that derailleur is a couple of inches behind the point where the chain would engage with the large chainring. This shows that the derailleur is rotated too far to the back of where it should be. This is why I asked about the frame and the seat tube angle (relative to the chainstays).

Normally, when shifting to the big ring the derailleur is supposed to push the chain outward and guide it to the top of the chainring. But the chain is flexible, so the cage should extend forward to near the top of the chainring in order to keep the chainring aligned with the chainring at the engagement point. If it is too far back from the top of the chainring, then in order to push the chain far enough to the outside to engage the teeth at the top of the chainring, it actually has to push the chain even further outboard behind the chainring. And once this happens, the chain will fall off to the outside.

The perfect solution here would be a special clamp-on derailelleur tab that moved the derailleur mounting position further forward, but I'm not aware of any of these existing. So the OP might have to do the best with adjusting the derailleur as well as they can. The usual solution for an over-shifting front derailleur is to rotate the tail of the derailleur cage outward. The OP might have to resort to using dual sided chain catcher, which might help prevent the chain from falling to the outside. Here is an example of a dual sided chain catcher from WickWerks: