Fixed by new fork: How to make a Landshark more stable/less squirmy?

[Blown Reek]

Originally Posted by proletariandan

if tubulars are the solution then I'm just going to get a different bike...

Just an FYI... tubulars are always the solution, irrespective of the issue.

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by proletariandan

It feels pretty normal/similar to my previous bike in that respect



I can, at least when going reasonably slow, but it doesn't feel very stable.

I run 27-28mm tubeless at 70psi but if tubulars are the solution then I'm just going to get a different bike...

Try 100psi and see if that improves the handling. If it does then try reducing pressure 5psi at a time until the squirminess returns and you should know a sweet spot for inflation on this bike.

[David Kirk]

It sure sounds like a trail issue to me. I'd measure the head angle and fork rake and see what the trail is.

dave

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by ultraman6970

Personally just from looking at the frame in the pictures, it looks like the wheelbase is just way too long and that could be part of the problem.

I'm curious why you would say this. He has plenty of stem length, so that would indicate the wheelbase is appropriate for his position. My personal bias is that really long stems are a symptom of bad fit, not a good thing. The industry trend is for longer bikes, if anything. I haven't seen anyone complain about handling due to that.

[danield]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

It sure sounds like a trail issue to me. I'd measure the head angle and fork rake and see what the trail is.

dave

would unorthodox trail explain "unresponsive" when turning but "not stable" going straight as OP seemed to describe? i would think if it's like a really high trail, it'll want to run straight (at sufficient speed) all the time, so sluggish when turning but super stable going straight downhill. And opposite for super short trail, super responsive turning, so much so it's squirrelly when going straight.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by danield

would unorthodox trail explain "unresponsive" when turning but "not stable" going straight as OP seemed to describe? i would think if it's like a really high trail, it'll want to run straight (at sufficient speed) all the time, so sluggish when turning but super stable going straight downhill. And opposite for super short trail, super responsive turning, so much so it's squirrelly when going straight.

A bike's steering geometry doesn't work in vacuum. Stability/handling is a feedback system between the bike and the rider. I prefer trail at the lower end, and when I jump onto a high trail bike, it can sometimes feel unstable in a straight line, because I'm applying inputs based on the way I'm expecting the bike to respond, and the bike is responding in a different way. It takes a short time to "recalibrate" my inputs to the bike and feel stable. Maybe the OP is used just used to a different steering geometry, and hasn't acclimated to the new bike?

[coffeecherrypie]

Based on OP’s descriptions my guess is that something will turn out to be actually wrong with either the existing headset or fork—just a guess but this sounds beyond differently-handling bike to me.

[Tandem Rider]

It looks to me like a weight distribution issue, long stem and the seat slammed forward puts too much weight on the front wheel making the bike handle badly IME. Just as an experiment, try sliding the seat back and throwing on a shorter stem, don't forget to re-adjust seat height and try it out. If it works, it's a cheap fix.

[saf-t]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

An app, or a digital angle finder such as the Tilt Box II can help,

For future reference, NIOSH has a free ladder safety app that includes an angle finder that reads in tenths of a degree. And it comes in really handy if you're one of those folks who uses an extension ladder........

[ultraman6970]

This is what I would do... but this is just me... as i said before some bikes IME dont do what they suppouse to do because the distribition of weight is the wrong one, in other words... the rider is seated in the wrong place or the contact points are wrong specially the stem.

Get a set of clincher 25 mm from a friend and put them in there. Just regular stuff... Since looks like the no hand test is weird, and will sound weird what I would ask friends if somebody has a stem with more angle (down) and test that. That stem is long enough the handling should be fairly quick.

I would start with the wheelset, 23 mm regular clinchers. Then stem with lower angle, that will put more weight at front. For the record Ive never used tubeless so no idea how they will affect the bike handling.

Wish you luck, sucks when the bikes dont do what they should do.

Originally Posted by proletariandan

It feels pretty normal/similar to my previous bike in that respect



I can, at least when going reasonably slow, but it doesn't feel very stable.

I run 27-28mm tubeless at 70psi but if tubulars are the solution then I'm just going to get a different bike...

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by saf-t

For future reference, NIOSH has a free ladder safety app that includes an angle finder that reads in tenths of a degree. And it comes in really handy if you're one of those folks who uses an extension ladder........

That's cool. It gives proper angle for height of ladder?

Like

[cmg]

if you have several other bikes try switching out forks to see if that helps. had a serotta steel frame that had a bontrager fork, 40mm rake, had heavy steering, switched to a fork with a 50mm rake and the riding stability improved. swap forks and see what happens.

[proletariandan]

Should have checked this sooner but I think the problem may be the rear wheel - the NDS spoke tension is waaaaay low, like an average of ~55kgf on CX-Rays (some barely tensioned at all) while the DS is where it should be ~120kgf.

[tv_vt]

Yeah, loose spokes would do it. I had a similar problem a few years ago with a certain set of wheels, hand builts, and had to deal with a pretty frightening sudden squirminess coming off of Middlebury Gap here in Vermont. But I could feel it in the rear end and under my saddle, unlike what you're saying about the front end being squirmy. But it did make the whole bike feel pretty scary.

It wasn't spoke tension, though - it was too thin spokes. Had the rear wheel rebuilt with stouter spokes and problem went away.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by proletariandan

Should have checked this sooner but I think the problem may be the rear wheel - the NDS spoke tension is waaaaay low, like an average of ~55kgf on CX-Rays (some barely tensioned at all) while the DS is where it should be ~120kgf.

You don't say what type of wheel it is, but those tensions are actually fairly typical for an 11spd wheel. Spoke tension should be even, but the tension differential is determined purely by geometry. If the DS tension is supposed to be 120 kgf, you're not going to get the NDS spokes any tighter. I doubt that the spoke tension is the cause of your handling issue.