Integrated Brake on Steel Frame?

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

That looks nice. Its kind of hard to tell from the picture what the actual stops look like but its certainly very close to the head and st junctions and looks very small in comparison to others ive seen.

They are minimal. About half is into the tube while the other half sticks out with a squared opening, if that makes sense. The rear of that Moser is completely on the outside of the tube with an angled opening, Vitus frames have a squared off straw sticking completely outside the TT, and the one in this picture is completely recessed inside the opening:




All of them provide the same thing - an angled port for the housing to enter, but the amount and shape that shows externally is variable and mainly about style (though some tubesets work better with one over the other).

All of these can be done with continuous housing or an internal stop, which internally looks like this:
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...-FERRULES.html

The outside can be minimal, blended with a fillet, or a dramatic lug-like gusset, like this:

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...OVERPLATE.html

If I was doing the 7 o'clock entrance and 11 o'clock exit like on the Moser, I would probably do a simple blended fillet style going in and the gusset type coming out. If I wanted to use gussets front and rear I would put both on top of the tube rather than having one semi-hidden. But that's just my aesthetic sense.

While the gusset type is available to buy, a frame builder can easily "bi-lam" any sort of external shape with fillet and plate. Or even make either an extension of the head or seat lugs.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by Kontact

They are minimal. About half is into the tube while the other half sticks out with a squared opening, if that makes sense. The rear of that Moser is completely on the outside of the tube with an angled opening, Vitus frames have a squared off straw sticking completely outside the TT, and the one in this picture is completely recessed inside the opening:




All of them provide the same thing - an angled port for the housing to enter, but the amount and shape that shows externally is variable and mainly about style (though some tubesets work better with one over the other).

All of these can be done with continuous housing or an internal stop, which internally looks like this:
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...-FERRULES.html

The outside can be minimal, blended with a fillet, or a dramatic lug-like gusset, like this:

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...OVERPLATE.html

If I was doing the 7 o'clock entrance and 11 o'clock exit like on the Moser, I would probably do a simple blended fillet style going in and the gusset type coming out. If I wanted to use gussets front and rear I would put both on top of the tube rather than having one semi-hidden. But that's just my aesthetic sense.

While the gusset type is available to buy, a frame builder can easily "bi-lam" any sort of external shape with fillet and plate. Or even make either an extension of the head or seat lugs.

Thanks for the detailed information.

So you would do something like the first pic for the front only its obviously a rear and not at 7 a clock.
And like the 2nd for the exit if i understand you correctly?

Hmm not sure i like the different solutions for front vs rear. But regardless i wonder if i could make them do fillets on this lugged frame. Perhaps tommasini are open to new things perhaps their design is rigid i dont know at this point.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

Thanks for the detailed information.

So you would do something like the first pic for the front only its obviously a rear and not at 7 a clock.
And like the 2nd for the exit if i understand you correctly?

Hmm not sure i like the different solutions for front vs rear. But regardless i wonder if i could make them do fillets on this lugged frame. Perhaps tommasini are open to new things perhaps their design is rigid i dont know at this point.

That's right, but with the assumption that we are talking a lugged frame. If not, I would do clean fillets for both.

The reason I suggest different front and rear is that the gusset hanging low at 7 o'clock looks lopsided. 7 o'clock is about having the cable juncture largely disappear. Lugs and gussets are about being visible and showy so they should be where you can easily see them.

IMO, of course.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by Kontact

That's right, but with the assumption that we are talking a lugged frame. If not, I would do clean fillets for both.

The reason I suggest different front and rear is that the gusset hanging low at 7 o'clock looks lopsided. 7 o'clock is about having the cable juncture largely disappear. Lugs and gussets are about being visible and showy so they should be where you can easily see them.

IMO, of course.

Okay but we are at least along the same chain of thought as i too was hoping the front would not show as much at 7-8 a clock but if i can make it go away completely thats worth thinking bout. Still ideally like to have the same solution.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Is the Domane the one where the housing entered on the right of the head tube? Those were bad.

Yes; that's the one. I'm told newer Domane's route the cable elsewhere, solving the kinked cable problem.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by Peter P.

Yes; that's the one. I'm told newer Domane's route the cable elsewhere, solving the kinked cable problem.

Yup. That "feature" actually inspired this thread some years ago:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=107984

Pure stupidity:

[Keith A]

I just picked the Ellis that was for sale in the classifieds and it has an integrated brake cable. Here's a picture from the original owner...

[cadence90]

And then there is this gorgeous Llewellyn detail, which is supremely pragmatic and elegant:



The "super-minimal-anti-cable-rub-bar" would work with top routing, as above, or with side routing when lowered (it might even look cleaner, nestled in the top tube/seat tube/seatstay area.

Man, if Tommasini could produce one of those things in this shape for you....




.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by cadence90

The "super-minimal-anti-cable-rub-bar" would work with top routing, as above, or with side routing when lowered (it might even look cleaner, nestled in the top tube/seat tube/seatstay area.

Man, if Tommasini could produce one of those things in this shape for you....




.

Or you could cut it out of beer can and put it on with double stick tape.

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

Hmm not sure i like the different solutions for front vs rear. But regardless i wonder if i could make them do fillets on this lugged frame. Perhaps tommasini are open to new things perhaps their design is rigid i dont know at this point.

Is Tommasini the only ITA custom steel candidate for you? If so, why?
.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by cadence90

Is Tommasini the only ITA custom steel candidate for you? If so, why?
.

No its just that the shop i have quite close sell them and the price is not that bad.. + i like that frame ofc.
+ i see this more like buying a colnago master with the opportunity to do some changes rather than a custom frame but that is perhaps wrong.

What would u be looking at?

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by tuscanyswe

No its just that the shop i have quite close sell them and the price is not that bad.. + i like that frame ofc.
+ i see this more like buying a colnago master with the opportunity to do some changes rather than a custom frame but that is perhaps wrong.

What would u be looking at?

Of course...if you are going through a dealer that makes sense.

Since I cannot afford a new, custom Colnago Master X-Light (by far my #1 SteelITA dream), the smallish, custom ITA steel brands that interest me, off the top of my head, in addition to Tommasini, are:
Battaglin, maybe
Bixxis
Casati (#1 on this list, for me)
De Rosa
Grandis
Scapin (tied with Casati)
Somec
Stelbel
Zullo


I'm curious, are there Scandinavian steel builders, as good as say Principia was in alu?
.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by cadence90

Of course...if you are going through a dealer that makes sense.

Since I cannot afford a new, custom Colnago Master X-Light (by far my #1 SteelITA dream), the smallish, custom ITA steel brands that interest me, off the top of my head, in addition to Tommasini, are:
Battaglin, maybe
Bixxis
Casati (#1 on this list, for me)
De Rosa
Grandis
Scapin (tied with Casati)
Somec
Stelbel
Zullo



I'm curious, are there Scandinavian steel builders, as good as say Principia was in alu?
.

Yeah i could live with a custom x-light as well but i cant seem to find a "deal" on those.

Most of those are more expensive, i reached out to stelbel for instance and got their price list. Its more than id like to spend. But the tecno is not really some "i will settle for this" agreement with myself. Im not so fond of half measures. I really like it and think if i can tweak it with some details it will be great.

I only know of a few builders and they are just starting out. If there were master framebuilders in sweden it was before i was a bike nut as i really havent heard of none. Or perhaps im just ilinformed but that seems less likely. Sweden were never like Denmark in terms of bicycle culture.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by cadence90

And then there is this gorgeous Llewellyn detail, which is supremely pragmatic and elegant:



The "super-minimal-anti-cable-rub-bar" would work with top routing, as above, or with side routing when lowered (it might even look cleaner, nestled in the top tube/seat tube/seatstay area.

Man, if Tommasini could produce one of those things in this shape for you....




.

Yes i saw that before, that is a really neat feature idd.

Its however not really suitable for this frame (or at least i dont think so) as the lug does not really protude much higher than the toptube so theres a big chance the housing will still arch above that feature even if i could ad it and with all thats going on in that lug allrdy im not sure it would be worth while.

[spacemen3]

Barco will make you a killer bike. And, off-the-shelf, the Carrera Lima has the cable routing you seek.