Tell me I'm making a mistake: DA 9100 -> Chorus 12?

[Scott5182]

If modern Shimano shifted as smooth and quiet as the 7800 series it would be a no brainer for me. Since then I think Shimano has dropped in performance.
I have 3 bikes with the old 7800 because it’s like power steering versus the old John Deer-tractor. However…. I have several Campy 10 bikes and even an Athena 11. I have to admit that my two Chorus 12 bikes get the most use these days. It’s direct crisp and comfortable. Chorus 12 is the modern winner. But what would I know, lol. I still ride bikes from the 70’s and 80’s with nuevo and super record sometimes.

Try the Chorus 12. You will be surprised.

[Rabaja]

Originally Posted by cvbm

I've found two issues with the DA 9120 shifters;

1. the brake feel is a bit on/off for me
2. the lever shape doesn't feel as good as others

If those are the issues you are spending bandwidth on you must be one of the following:
- Retired
- Childless
- Trust funder
- An academic
Or a combination …. I know because it partly fits my profile … Afaik, I’ve decided to not waste time on things like this … After 10 years I just upgraded from 9000 Di2 to 9200 Di2 as the old group was falling apart. I like the new group but it doesn’t make me any faster … You like to try Campy? Got for it … the differences will be minor … and so subjective that other people’s views won’t really help you … imho

[tbike4]

This is a slightly different question but... I love my SR11 and I like my 9100. What about 9100 to Record 12? I am liking Campy and am fairly new to it.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Dave

I rode Campy only for 25 years, including Chorus 12. I switched to SRAM AXS 12, mainly to get rid of shift cables, but quickly came to prefer two lever shifting and the wireless setup. I've had rim brake, cable operated disc and now hydraulic disc setups.

I've used Chorus 48/32 cranks and Shimano GRX cranks with SRAM AXS, but never SRAM cranks, due to their limited range. Front shifting has been excellent. The AXS chain is the most quiet I've ever used. I even used it with Chorus 12.

Hmm, gent was asking about 9100 vs Campagnolo Chorus but...

I get that there are only 2 shift levers on sram levers, when the bike is sitting there but ya gotta use both to shift the ders, particularly the front der.(two lever shifting)...when riding. Just like the other groups..just both on one lever..

BACK to the OP..yes, get ya some Campagnolo Chorus, and like I said, come out of the cold...step up to premium...kinda like trading your 'yamaha' in on a Ducati...

[Ttx1]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

In the debate over Campy or Shimano, I don't think you can justify an argument that one is better than the other based on function. Both are modern and will get the job done. It comes down to the feeling you get seeing one or the other on your bike. And only you can determine that. Personally, I use Record 12sp over Shimano because I like the ergo levers and the look of the crankset better. Conversely, I don't like the bulbous nature of the non-DI2 Shimano levers, I don't want batteries on my bike, and their cranksets look cheaper to me. But that's my feelings, yours may be different.

We mostly agree, but at risk of thread drift I will take that first argument...

In 2018 I went with DA for a new build. I hate it. Yes, it works well, blah blah blah. But the nested shift controls are catastrophically bad, even without winter gloves. Comments specific to Di2: No, I will not go full automatic shifting - who wants Shimano to decide when to shift in a climb? No, I will not go to semi-automatic for up and down where Di2 decides how to shift. I'm just fine with deciding for myself how and when to use the front or rear derailleur, thank you very much. No, 4 years later I have not adjusted and I still miss some shifts when my thumb is seeking a lever that isn't there. User error, yes. User stubbornness, yes. Bad design relative to Campy, yes.

In '22 I purchased my first new group in 4 years, Campy Chorus 12. So good. So crisp, so... rational. Di2 didn't make me a better or happier rider, but Chorus 12 actually delivers on the latter.

Chorus 12 feels like a German car, before electronics took over - just the right amount of mechanical effort/feedback to let you know what's happening. Better than anything Shimano has offered since 7800, maybe. It's the feeling of a purpose-built tool, and it is the feeling of control.

I really want a Shimano-ectomy on my Di2 bike, and would like to go EPS - if only to get the great Campy discs and the rational brifter configuration. Maybe in the new year.

In the meantime, the only alternative to Campy is SRAM, IMO - both mech and elec. SRAM has arguably the best overall approach re: elec shifting with modular external batteries and full wireless operation. A wireless EPS option would be the cat's meow, to keep Campy's rational and highly ergonomic brifter config which I still prefer to SRAM (in fairness, it's about fit, and Campy fits right and feels great in my meat hooks).

Not to mention Shimano's pointless design exercises to refresh appearance without really changing anything (price, performance, weight?) - except cost reduction. The stuff always looks like the Pontiac design team moved to Japan after GM shut down that unit. Lots of creases, fairings, non-functional aero styling (now discontinued road rotors circa 2018-19 that everyone substituted out for XTR), poor alignment and mis-matched color panels. It's comically bad, arguably low quality, but somehow a bunch of people just accept it. Just look at how the chainrings don't line up with the crank arms. Terribad.

I really don't see why anyone accepts Shimano plastic brifters, stamped/bonded cranks and stamped rings that crack and warp, and playstation buttons for shifter feel. Fail, fail, fail, and I cannot wait to get this crap off my bike.

Campy is more expensive for a good reason.

Get Campy Chorus 12 and forget about all those disappointments and Shimano cost reductions. Chorus 12 is really, really good.

And skip elec entirely. Retro? Maybe. It's very satisfying.

[Dave]

The OP asked to be told that he'd be making a mistake to try Campy Chorus. I did that, but suggested a better alternative. I've been there and done that. SRAM AXS is a better alternative, IMO. Riding in heavy winter gloves, Etap really shines.

[cvbm]

Originally Posted by charliedid

You're making a big mistake.

Hah, thanks for the very literal reply.

I am honestly quite shocked by the traction this question generated. for what it's worth

1. I am an idiot and I obsess over pointless things like this
2. really appreciate some of the counter points in this thread urging me to consider other options (e.g. AXS) however I want a dumb bike for no other reason than point #1
3. the commenter on my complaints on the brake feel of my 9120 levers is right to call me out, I strongly suspect there is contamination but haven't gotten around to investigating
4. at the end of the day, yes this is quite subjective but a real note my hands run a bit on the smaller side and those dang bulbous Shimano hydro levers don't quite feel right in my hands
5. I guess I will see if there is a decent post-holiday sale on Chorus (maybe Record if I feel like setting any more money on fire)

Thank you to all of you who took the time to reply, I appreciate it!

I think Ttx1 summarized some of the complaints with DA in a much more articulate way as well as articulated what I hope C12 might deliver in terms of lever and shift feel

[Joeeboh]

Originally Posted by cvbm

As the title says, I think I am having a case of "grass is greener" and want some outside commentary to add to my thoughts.

I have used SRAM Force 1 for the last 4 years and just decided to switch back to not on 2x but also Shimano with my latest build.

I have had Dura Ace 7800 and Ultegra 6700 and missed the solid response on the Shimano shifts, but also the range / more stable jumps in cadence with 2x so I cobbled together a gently used 9120 group.

Fast forward a couple hundred miles on the 9120 group and I'm wondering if I should have explored my options more... I've read a few glowing reviews of the Chorus 12 hydro group that talk about how the front shifting is pretty solid but the brake modulation is better than Shimano.

I've found two issues with the DA 9120 shifters;

1. the brake feel is a bit on/off for me
2. the lever shape doesn't feel as good as others

I've had 10s Chorus in the past as well as tried out the newer shape Campy hoods and really liked the ergonomics but I'm not convinced that ergonomics alone are worth the switch. I would get another gear but also add a decent chunk of weight compared to my current group

One way to get around this is to get a frame to put your Chorus 12 on so you can do an A/B comparison against the DA9100.

Thats what I am doing, but am still on rim.

[cgolvin]

As I have only ridden DA 9100 once or twice on a rental bike, I can't answer your original question. I have nearly 15k miles on my Chorus 12 (rim brake) group and it has been excellent, front shifting is the best I've ever experienced in 4+ decades. Here are my only gripes about the groupset (really #3 is the only important one for you):

1. The FD cage broke after about 4k miles. Fortunately I was able to get a warranty replacement cage and since then no issues.
2. While the brakes work well, I can't get over the suspicion that I should have upgraded to Record or SR calipers since they're actually made by Campy. Since my understanding is that the C, R, and SR disc calipers are all made by the same manufacturer, this isn't relevant to you.
3. Recently I noticed that one of the teeth on my big chainring was bent (no idea how that happened). I was shocked to learn the price of these subcompact (48/32) rings — it was more cost effective to just buy a new crankset and sell off the old one sans rings. If you're considering this lower gearing, you might look at Praxis as an alternative. I would go that way but Praxis doesn't make an ITA threaded BB.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Rabaja

If those are the issues you are spending bandwidth on you must be one of the following:
- Retired
- Childless
- Trust funder
- An academic
Or a combination …. I know because it partly fits my profile … Afaik, I’ve decided to not waste time on things like this … After 10 years I just upgraded from 9000 Di2 to 9200 Di2 as the old group was falling apart. I like the new group but it doesn’t make me any faster … You like to try Campy? Got for it … the differences will be minor … and so subjective that other people’s views won’t really help you … imho

A post that insults the OP and four other groups. Impressive.

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

A post that insults the OP and four other groups. Impressive.

My thoughts as well. It really amazes me that so many can't just say they like one brand or the other without trashing one of them. Or, if they can't, or don't want to, spend the cost for some TOTL stuff they think no one else should. It's just bikes. If you want something new and shiny...go for it. Like to stick to the old tried and true stuff...thumbs up. Ride what you like, make suggestions based on your experience but leave out the condescending stuff.

That said, I have Record 12 on my older bike and SRAM Red AXS on the new one. They both work but I am a bit surprised how much I like the SRAM parts, especially when I go for a ride on the older bike. The e-shifting is wonderful for my creaky thumbs. The ease of shifting from nearly any position with whatever finger happens to be closest never gets old!

Tim

[cvbm]

Originally Posted by mcteague

That said, I have Record 12 on my older bike and SRAM Red AXS on the new one. They both work but I am a bit surprised how much I like the SRAM parts, especially when I go for a ride on the older bike. The e-shifting is wonderful for my creaky thumbs. The ease of shifting from nearly any position with whatever finger happens to be closest never gets old!

I do like the idea of AXS, but I don't like SRAM's bleeding process and would prefer to steer away from DOT fluid (I've had Force hydro in the past)

Originally Posted by cgolvin

1. The FD cage broke after about 4k miles. Fortunately I was able to get a warranty replacement cage and since then no issues.
2. While the brakes work well, I can't get over the suspicion that I should have upgraded to Record or SR calipers since they're actually made by Campy. Since my understanding is that the C, R, and SR disc calipers are all made by the same manufacturer, this isn't relevant to you.
3. Recently I noticed that one of the teeth on my big chainring was bent (no idea how that happened). I was shocked to learn the price of these subcompact (48/32) rings — it was more cost effective to just buy a new crankset and sell off the old one sans rings. If you're considering this lower gearing, you might look at Praxis as an alternative. I would go that way but Praxis doesn't make an ITA threaded BB.

That is fascinating! I'll have to check out the chainring pricing, that said I'm ready to commit blasphemy and use my Middleburn cranks (assuming the 12 speed chain works) because I really like the look of them vs a chunky and space-agey crankset - my bike is a more classic looking skinny/round tubed frame and just think the skinny tubes and chunky crank look isn't for me.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by cvbm

That is fascinating! I'll have to check out the chainring pricing, that said I'm ready to commit blasphemy and use my Middleburn cranks (assuming the 12 speed chain works) because I really like the look of them vs a chunky and space-agey crankset - my bike is a more classic looking skinny/round tubed frame and just think the skinny tubes and chunky crank look isn't for me.

Just to be clear, I believe (not certain) that the high pricing is specific to the subcompact (48/32) combo, especially the 48 … compact & mid-compact are more like standard Campy pricing.

[cvbm]

Ah gotcha - then I'll probably stick with the Middleburn as I already run 46/30 with that and like that so far.

[Ttx1]

Originally Posted by cvbm

That is fascinating! I'll have to check out the chainring pricing, that said I'm ready to commit blasphemy and use my Middleburn cranks (assuming the 12 speed chain works) because I really like the look of them vs a chunky and space-agey crankset - my bike is a more classic looking skinny/round tubed frame and just think the skinny tubes and chunky crank look isn't for me.

I like where your head is at.

You want blasphemy? I run Cannondale Hollowgram with Chorus 12. No problem.

No promises re: other rings, but I read up before I put the C12 chain on the Hollogram rings, and reports were 11s rings work as long as chainline is good. Appears to be true.